Author Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines  (Read 84739 times)

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Offline jerix

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #300 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 10:54 AM »
Who will be saved?

ME --  ;D because i believe it so and it is beyond your understanding, or else you will also be saved.
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Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #301 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 10:56 AM »
Who will be saved?

ME --  ;D because i believe it so and it is beyond your understanding, or else you will also be saved.



whats beyond my understanding?  ::)

pakilala kita sa muttawa friend ko sa quiapo at sabihin mo sa kanya na ikaw ang masasalba, hindi siya ;D

Offline aHobbit

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #302 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:01 AM »

thats why i didnt even bother to quote your post. ;D

if all of us are damned, may i ask who will be saved?


Before I answer your question ... I implore you to read as suggested ... the reason being is that, if the lawyers during Jesus time found it difficult to comprehend all that has transpired from the life of Abraham down to their generation with Jesus ... it will also be difficult for you without first knowing how attorney Paul presented all those events especially as regards to The Law ... and my answer to you again will be bound for unnecessary comment in this thread by those not concerned about my post to you ...

As for the respect of religion ... we can agree to disagree, that should be fine ... they will have their own time that they man encounter the same question that you are asking ... perhaps, your time to sit down is now ... because the opportunity may never come back again ... Happy reading
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Offline Moks007

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #303 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:03 AM »
Sir Barrister thanks for the passage sa Matthew.. ;) Ya I knew it was somewhere in the New Testament

The Book of Job is a great book to read. This is Chapter 38 when Job questions God about his suffering and God answers back. ;)

  
  
    
 

Job
Chapter 38
1
1 Then the LORD addressed Job out of the storm and said:
2
Who is this that obscures divine plans with words of ignorance?
3
2 Gird up your loins now, like a man; I will question you, and you tell me the answers!
4
Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.
5
Who determined its size; do you know? Who stretched out the measuring line for it?
6
Into what were its pedestals sunk, and who laid the cornerstone,
7
3 While the morning stars sang in chorus and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8
And who shut within doors the sea, when it burst forth from the womb;
9
When I made the clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling bands?
10
When I set limits for it and fastened the bar of its door,
11
And said: Thus far shall you come but no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stilled!
12
Have you ever in your lifetime commanded the morning and shown the dawn its place
13
For taking hold of the ends of the earth, till the wicked are shaken from its surface?
14
The earth is changed as is clay by the seal, and dyed as though it were a garment;
15
But from the wicked the light is withheld, and the arm of pride is shattered.
16
Have you entered into the sources of the sea, or walked about in the depths of the abyss?
17
Have the gates of death been shown to you, or have you seen the gates of darkness?
18
Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth? Tell me, if you know all:
19
Which is the way to the dwelling place of light, and where is the abode of darkness,
20
That you may take them to their boundaries and set them on their homeward paths?
21
4 You know, because you were born before them, and the number of your years is great!
22
5 Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, and seen the treasury of the hail
23
Which I have reserved for times of stress, for the days of war and of battle?
24
Which way to the parting of the winds, whence the east wind spreads over the earth?
25
Who has laid out a channel for the downpour and for the thunderstorm a path
26
To bring rain to no man's land, the unpeopled wilderness;
27
To enrich the waste and desolate ground till the desert blooms with verdure?
28
Has the rain a father; or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29
Out of whose womb comes the ice, and who gives the hoarfrost its birth in the skies,
30
When the waters lie covered as though with stone that holds captive the surface of the deep?
31
6 Have you fitted a curb to the Pleiades, or loosened the bonds of Orion?
32
Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or guide the Bear with its train?
33
Do you know the ordinances of the heavens; can you put into effect their plan on the earth?
34
7 Can you raise your voice among the clouds, or veil yourself in the waters of the storm?
35
8 Can you send forth the lightnings on their way, or will they say to you, "Here we are"?
37
Who counts the clouds in his wisdom? Or who tilts the water jars of heaven
38
So that the dust of earth is fused into a mass and its clods made solid?
39
Do you hunt the prey for the lioness or appease the hunger of her cubs,
40
While they crouch in their dens, or lie in wait in the thicket?
36
9 Who puts wisdom in the heart, and gives the cock its understanding?
41
Who provides nourishment for the ravens when their young ones cry out to God, and they rove abroad without food?
Table of Contents  Previous Chapter  Next Chapter
Footnotes
1 [1] Now the LORD enters the debate and addresses two discourses (Job 38-39 and Job 40-41) to Job, in which he speaks of his wisdom and power, which are altogether beyond the capacity of Job, who therefore should never dare to demand a reason for the divine actions. Out of the storm: frequently the background of the appearances of the LORD in the Old Testament; cf Psalm 18; 50; Nahum 1:3; Hebrews 3.

2 [3] Gird up your loins: prepare for combat--figuratively, be ready to defend yourself in debate.

3 [7] Sons of God: angels; cf Job 1:6.

4 [21] Divine irony.

5 [22-23] Hail . . . of war: thus God used a hailstorm to rout Joshua's foes in the battle of Gibeon; cf Joshua 10:11; Sirach 46:5.

6 [31-32] Pleiades . . . Orion . . . Bear: cf Job 9:9. Mazzaroth: It is uncertain what astronomical group is meant by this Hebrew word; perhaps a southern constellation (cf Job 9:9).

7 [34] Veil yourself . . . storm: wrap yourself in a cloud, as God comes in a theophany; cf Psalm 18:12.

8 [35] Here we are: at your service.

9 [36] Understanding: the reflection of divine Wisdom discernible in the created animal instincts of the cock.



New American Bible Copyright © 1991, 1986, 1970 Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, Inc., Washington, DC. All rights reserved. Neither this work nor any part of it may be reproduced, distributed, performed or displayed in any medium, including electronic or digital, without permission in writing from the copyright owner.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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__________________________________

New American Bible
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3000
December 09, 2002 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

Offline jerix

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #304 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:05 AM »


whats beyond my understanding?  ::)

pakilala kita sa muttawa friend ko sa quiapo at sabihin mo sa kanya na ikaw ang masasalba, hindi siya ;D

hehehe gulo yan bro  ;D
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Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #305 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:06 AM »

Before I answer your question ... I implore you to read as suggested ... the reason being is that, if the lawyers during Jesus time found it difficult to comprehend all that has transpired from the life of Abraham down to their generation with Jesus ... it will also be difficult for you without first knowing how attorney Paul presented all those events especially as regards to The Law ... and my answer to you again will be bound for unnecessary comment in this thread by those not concerned about my post to you ...

As for the respect of religion ... we can agree to disagree, that should be fine ... they will have their own time that they man encounter the same question that you are asking ... perhaps, your time to sit down is now ... because the opportunity may never come back again ... Happy reading


ingat sa dobol-post baka ibang handle na naman ang lumabas ::) ;D

just for the record, i am catholic. may i ask the others here what their religion? wala lang...masama ba?


Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #306 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:07 AM »
hehehe gulo yan bro  ;D


bakit naman?

hanggang dito at doon ba, away ng mga kampon ng mga anak ni abraham? ;D

Offline aHobbit

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #307 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:10 AM »
Kawawa naman ang mga Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Shinto, atbp.

Buti pa mga Satanista kasi nag-iisa lang ang diyos nila.


Actually, the graver truth is that Satan and his minions, the devils, recognize Jesus and God ... and they tremble even at the mention of His name ...

The evolutionists, IMHO is worse  ;D ...
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Offline jerix

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #308 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM »

bakit naman?

hanggang dito at doon ba, away ng mga kampon ng mga anak ni abraham? ;D

korek ka jan bro  ;)

Ako aaminin ko wala akong particular na religion but i have my own spiritual beliefs. :)
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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #309 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM »

just for the record, i am catholic. may i ask the others here what their religion? wala lang...masama ba?




I started as devout catholic ... I knew my doctrines, probably more than you knew yours ... but after I studied my Bible, religion becomes irrelevant ... I define religion as man's attempt to reach out for God in his own terms and in his own self-understanding of what God is and requires.
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Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #310 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:21 AM »

I started as devout catholic ... I knew my doctrines, probably more than you knew yours ... but after I studied my Bible, religion becomes irrelevant ... I define religion as man's attempt to reach out for God in his own terms and in his own self-understanding of what God is and requires.


religion irrelevant?

yet, as per your statement,  religion is "man's attempt to reach out for God in his own terms and in his own self-understanding of what God is and requires."

sounds interesting :)

Offline jerix

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #311 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM »
If your beliefs are shared by others and you decide to have a group then next will be another religion... tama po ba?
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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #312 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM »
If your beliefs are shared by others and you decide to have a group then next will be another religion... tama po ba?


siguro sadyang ganyan ang tao. maisangguni nga kay brad pete, este bro. eli ;D

bakit pa kailangan magtatag ng panibagong relihiyon o simbahan? ang dami na sa kapaligiran. katoliko, muslim, inc, born-again, protestant methodist,baptist,evangelical pentecostal,sabadista 7th day adventist, jehovah, mormons, ang dating daan, jil, elshaddai (ano ba talaga brother mike, sangay lang ba ito ng simbahang katoliko panlaban, nung kasagsagan ng born-again? )

sa isang community napansin ko may mga maliliit na sambahan, ibat-iba ang pangalan


mods. pasensya na po, mukang nalihis na ang thread. (tho i expected topics like this to eventually reach this stage) ;D
« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM by ojof00l »

Offline jerix

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #313 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:03 PM »
For me i believe that the rise of religion is brought about by just one belief and that is the belief that theirs is the chosen one.
 
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Offline indie boi

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #314 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM »
I hope people realize that religion is a construct of man. A way for us to make sense of the bigger world around us and to provide a deeper purpose for our existence.

I firmly believe that God exists and that I shall be judged on how well I live my life and how well I treat my fellowman. These are the basic tenets that we will see in the great religions. It's a universal dogma. The problem arises when these great religions, most especially its rabid, fundamentalist offshoot sects, muddle everything with the insane notion that God will only favor one group over another. This is a picture of a God who is close-minded and bigoted. That's not the God I believe in.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #315 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:14 PM »
Let me share this article ... hope it sheds some light regd RELIGION, JESUS and the BIBLE.

There is no doubt that the number of different religions in the world makes it a challenge to know which one is correct. First, let’s consider some thoughts on the overall subject and then look at how one might approach the topic in a manner that can actually get to a right conclusion about God. The challenge of different answers to a particular issue is not unique to the topic of religion. For example, you can sit 100 math students down, give them a complex problem to solve, and it is likely that many will get the answer wrong. But does this mean that a correct answer does not exist? Not at all. Those who get the answer wrong simply need to be shown their error and know the techniques necessary to arrive at the correct answer.

How do we arrive at the truth about God? We use a systematic methodology that is designed to separate truth from error by using various tests for truth, with the end result being a set of right conclusions. Can you imagine the end results a scientist would arrive at if he went into the lab and just started mixing things together with no rhyme or reason? Or if a physician just started treating a patient with random medicines in the hope of making him well? Neither the scientist nor the physician takes this approach; instead, they use systematic methods that are methodical, logical, evidential, and proven to yield the right end result.

This being the case, why think theology—the study of God—should be any different? Why believe it can be approached in a haphazard and undisciplined way and still yield right conclusions? Unfortunately, this is the approach many take, and this is one of the reasons why so many religions exist. That said, we now return to the question of how to reach truthful conclusions about God. What systematic approach should be used? First, we need to establish a framework for testing various truth claims, and then we need a roadmap to follow to reach a right conclusion. Here is a good framework to use:

1. Logical consistency—the claims of a belief system must logically cohere to each other and not contradict in any way. As an example, the end goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of all desires. Yet, one must have a desire to rid oneself of all desires, which is a contradictory and illogical principle.

2. Empirical adequacy—is there evidence to support the belief system (whether the evidence is rational, externally evidential, etc.)? Naturally, it is only right to want proof for important claims being made so the assertions can be verified. For example, Mormons teach that Jesus lived in North America. Yet there is absolutely no proof, archaeological or otherwise, to support such a claim.

3. Existential relevancy—the belief system must conform to reality as we know it, and it must make a meaningful difference in the life of the adherent. Deism, for example, claims that God just threw the spinning world into the universe and does not interact with those who live on it. How does such a belief impact someone in a day-to-day manner? In short, it does not.

The above framework, when applied to the topic of religion, will help lead one to a right view of God and will answer the four big questions of life:

1. Origin – where did we come from?
2. Ethics – how should we live?
3. Meaning – what is the purpose for life?
4. Destiny – where is mankind heading?

But how does one go about applying this framework in the pursuit of God? A step-by-step question/answer approach is one of the best tactics to employ. Narrowing the list of possible questions down produces the following:

1. Does absolute truth exist?
2. Do reason and religion mix?
3. Does God exist?
4. Can God be known?
5. Is Jesus God?
6. Does God care about me?

First we need to know if absolute truth exists. If it does not, then we really cannot be sure of anything (spiritual or not), and we end up either an agnostic, unsure if we can really know anything, or a pluralist, accepting every position because we are not sure which, if any, is right.

Absolute truth is defined as that which matches reality, that which corresponds to its object, telling it like it is. Some say there is no such thing as absolute truth, but taking such a position becomes self-defeating. For example, the relativist says, “All truth is relative,” yet one must ask: is that statement absolutely true? If so, then absolute truth exists; if not, then why consider it? Postmodernism affirms no truth, yet it affirms at least one absolute truth: postmodernism is true. In the end, absolute truth becomes undeniable.

Further, absolute truth is naturally narrow and excludes its opposite. Two plus two equals four, with no other answer being possible. This point becomes critical as different belief systems and worldviews are compared. If one belief system has components that are proven true, then any competing belief system with contrary claims must be false. Also, we must keep in mind that absolute truth is not impacted by sincerity and desire. No matter how sincerely someone embraces a lie, it is still a lie. And no desire in the world can make something true that is false.

The answer of question one is that absolute truth exists. This being the case, agnosticism, postmodernism, relativism, and skepticism are all false positions.

This leads us to the next question of whether reason/logic can be used in matters of religion. Some say this is not possible, but—why not? The truth is, logic is vital when examining spiritual claims because it helps us understand why some claims should be excluded and others embraced. Logic is absolutely critical in dismantling pluralism (which says that all truth claims, even those that oppose each other, are equal and valid).

For example, Islam and Judaism claim that Jesus is not God, whereas Christianity claims He is. One of the core laws of logic is the law of non-contradiction, which says something cannot be both “A” and “non-A” at the same time and in the same sense. Applying this law to the claims Judaism, Islam, and Christianity means that one is right and the other two are wrong. Jesus cannot be both God and not God. Used properly, logic is a potent weapon against pluralism because it clearly demonstrates that contrary truth claims cannot both be true. This understanding topples the whole “true for you but not for me” mindset.

Logic also dispels the whole “all roads lead to the top of the mountain” analogy that pluralists use. Logic shows that each belief system has its own set of signs that point to radically different locations in the end. Logic shows that the proper illustration of a search for spiritual truth is more like a maze—one path makes it through to truth, while all others arrive at dead ends. All faiths may have some surface similarities, but they differ in major ways in their core doctrines.

The conclusion is that you can use reason and logic in matters of religion. That being the case, pluralism (the belief that all truth claims are equally true and valid) is ruled out because it is illogical and contradictory to believe that diametrically opposing truth claims can both be right.

Next comes the big question: does God exist? Atheists and naturalists (who do not accept anything beyond this physical world and universe) say “no.” While volumes have been written and debates have raged throughout history on this question, it is actually not difficult to answer. To give it proper attention, you must first ask this question: Why do we have something rather than nothing at all? In other words, how did you and everything around you get here? The argument for God can be presented very simply:

Something exists.
You do not get something from nothing.
Therefore, a necessary and eternal Being exists.

You cannot deny you exist because you have to exist in order to deny your own existence (which is self-defeating), so the first premise above is true. No one believes you can get something from nothing (i.e., that ”nothing” produced the universe), so the second premise is true. Therefore, the third premise must be true—an eternal Being responsible for everything must exist.

This is a position no thinking atheist denies; they just claim that the universe is that eternal being. However, the problem with that stance is that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning (the ‘big bang’). And everything that has a beginning must have a cause; therefore, the universe had a cause and is not eternal. Because the only two sources of eternality are an eternal universe (proven to be untrue) or an eternal Creator, the only logical conclusion is that God exists. Answering the question of God’s existence in the affirmative rules out atheism as a valid belief system.

Now, this conclusion says nothing about what kind of God exists, but amazingly enough, it does do one sweeping thing—it rules out all pantheistic religions. All pantheistic worldviews say that the universe is God and is eternal. And this assertion is false. So, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and all other pantheistic religions are ruled out as valid belief systems.

Further, we learn some interesting things about this God who created the universe. He is:

• Supernatural in nature (as He exists outside of His creation)
• Incredibly powerful (to have created all that is known)
• Eternal (self-existent, as He exists outside of time and space)
• Omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it)
• Timeless and changeless (He created time)
• Immaterial (because He transcends space)
• Personal (the impersonal can’t create personality)
• Necessary (as everything else depends on Him)
• Infinite and singular (as you cannot have two infinites)
• Diverse yet has unity (as nature exhibits diversity)
• Intelligent (supremely, to create everything)
• Purposeful (as He deliberately created everything)
• Moral (no moral law can exist without a lawgiver)
• Caring (or no moral laws would have been given)

This Being exhibits characteristics very similar to the God of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which interestingly enough, are the only core faiths left standing after atheism and pantheism have been eliminated. Note also that one of the big questions in life (origins) is now answered: we know where we came from.

This leads to the next question: can we know God? At this point, the need for religion is replaced by something more important—the need for revelation. If mankind is to know this God well, it is up to God to reveal Himself to His creation. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all claim to have a book that is God’s revelation to man, but the question is which (if any) is actually true? Pushing aside minor differences, the two core areas of dispute are 1) the New Testament of the Bible 2) the person of Jesus Christ. Islam and Judaism both claim the New Testament of the Bible is untrue in what it claims, and both deny that Jesus is God incarnate, while Christianity affirms both to be true.

There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ’s death), to the multiplicity of the accounts (nine authors in 27 books of the New Testament), to the archaeological evidence—none of which has ever contradicted a single claim the New Testament makes—to the fact that the apostles went to their deaths claiming they had seen Jesus in action and that He had come back from the dead, Christianity sets the bar in terms of providing the proof to back up its claims. The New Testament’s historical authenticity—that it conveys a truthful account of the actual events as they occurred—is the only right conclusion to reach once all the evidence has been examined.

When it comes to Jesus, one finds a very curious thing about Him—He claimed to be God in the flesh. Jesus own words (e.g., “Before Abraham was born I AM”), His actions (e.g., forgiving sins, accepting worship), His sinless and miraculous life (which He used to prove His truth claims over opposing claims), and His resurrection all support His claims to be God. The New Testament writers affirm this fact over and over again in their writings.

Now, if Jesus is God, then what He says must be true. And if Jesus said that the Bible is inerrant and true in everything it says (which He did), this must mean that the Bible is true in what it proclaims. As we have already learned, two competing truth claims cannot both be right. So anything in the Islamic Koran or writings of Judaism that contradict the Bible cannot be true. In fact, both Islam and Judaism fail since they both say that Jesus is not God incarnate, while the evidence says otherwise. And because we can indeed know God (because He has revealed Himself in His written Word and in Christ), all forms of agnosticism are refuted. Lastly, another big question of life is answered—that of ethics—as the Bible contains clear instructions on how mankind ought to live.

This same Bible proclaims that God cares deeply for mankind and wishes all to know Him intimately. In fact, He cares so much that He became a man to show His creation exactly what He is like. There are many men who have sought to be God, but only one God who sought to be man so He could save those He deeply loves from an eternity separated from Him. This fact demonstrates the existential relevancy of Christianity and also answers that last two big questions of life—meaning and destiny. Each person has been designed by God for a purpose, and each has a destiny that awaits him—one of eternal life with God or eternal separation from Him. This deduction (and the point of God’s becoming a man in Christ) also refutes Deism, which says God is not interested in the affairs of mankind.

In the end, we see that ultimate truth about God can be found and the worldview maze successfully navigated by testing various truth claims and systematically pushing aside falsehoods so that only the truth remains. Using the tests of logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and existential relevancy, coupled with asking the right questions, yields truthful and reasonable conclusions about religion and God. Everyone should agree that the only reason to believe something is that it is true—nothing more. Sadly, true belief is a matter of the will, and no matter how much logical evidence is presented, some will still choose to deny the God who is there and miss the one true path to harmony with Him.

« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:32 PM by JT »

Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #316 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:23 PM »
Let me share this article ...



may i know, who is the author?
« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 at 03:23 PM by ojof00l »

Offline darth mond

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #317 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:24 PM »
I hope people realize that religion is a construct of man. A way for us to make sense of the bigger world around us and to provide a deeper purpose for our existence.

I firmly believe that God exists and that I shall be judged on how well I live my life and how well I treat my fellowman. These are the basic tenets that we will see in the great religions. It's a universal dogma. The problem arises when these great religions, most especially its rabid, fundamentalist offshoot sects, muddle everything with the insane notion that God will only favor one group over another. This is a picture of a God who is close-minded and bigoted. That's not the God I believe in.

Actually medyo nahihilo na nga ako sa topic na ito. pero, this post makes a lot of sense. Personally I grew up in a household that's mixed-religion (dad is a Born-again Christian, mom is Roman Catholic), but I was baptized Catholic and studied in Catholic Schools. Now I'm more of a non-dogmatic catholic but My wife and her family are Devout Catholics. Pero wala kaming nagiging problema, I just do not comment on their practices and they respect me when I don't attend the Padasals etc.  

Offline oweidah

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #318 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:27 PM »
For me i believe that the rise of religion is brought about by just one belief and that is the belief that theirs is the chosen one.
 


pagsamahin mo tag-isang tao ng bawat relihiyon sa isang kwarto. hawak ng bawat isa ang kanilang banal na kasulatan. tas sa gilid ng pader, armalite, ak, galil/uzi  ;D

Offline JT

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Offline oweidah

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« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 at 03:05 PM by ojof00l »

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #321 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 12:48 PM »

googling the Bible, Quran and Torah >

http://www.changethestory.net/?q=content/quran-bible-torah-comparison

who they are>
http://www.changethestory.net/?q=content/more-about-changethestorynet

excerpts.
Creation

Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the concept of an all-powerful creator God who fashions the universe and everything in it. The book of Genesis contains two creation stories that form the basis of both Christianity’s and Islam’s own creation narratives. In the first, God creates the universe over the course of six days and rests on the seventh day, which is consecrated as the Sabbath. The second story repeats some material in the first but is principally about God’s creation of humankind in the form of Adam and Eve, their life in the Garden of Eden, and their eventual expulsion for transgressing God’s commands. Christianity adapted the narrative from Genesis while asserting that Jesus had co-existed with God (as part of God) from the origin of the universe. The Qur'an contains many references to the creation story, describing God making the universe over the course of six time periods.

“In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. Then God said, ‘Let there be light’; and there was light.” (Genesis 1: 1-3)

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being … And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory.” (John 1: 1-14)

“To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth; when He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: ‘Be’; and it is.” (Qur'an 2: 117)
__________

God

Judaism, Christianity and Islam have in common the notion that one God governs the world and all of creation, and is omnipotent, omniscient, and everlasting. In all three religions, God is transcendent, beyond space and time, and yet acts in history and through time. The theologies of Judaism and Islam are closer to each other than either is to Christianity; both hold God to be unified and indivisible. Most, but not all, Christians today uphold that God is a unified entity with three aspects: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) who is both divine and human, and the Holy Spirit. In Islam, God (Arabic: Allah) is the same as the God of the Jews and Christians. Just as Christians adopted Jewish narratives and teachings for their own use, Muslims have adopted narratives and teachings from both of the monotheisms that came before it.

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord alone. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” (Deuteronomy 6: 4-5)

“There is no God but one. Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth … yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (1 Corinthians 4: 4-6)

“And your God is one God; there is no god but He Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day, in the sailing of the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth; here indeed are signs for a people that are wise.” (Qur'an 2: 163-164)

Offline RU9

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #322 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 01:52 PM »
Let me share this article ... hope it sheds some light regd RELIGION, JESUS and the BIBLE.

There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ’s death), to the multiplicity of the


What documents? 15 years after Christ’s death?

http://www.allabouttruth.org/when-was-the-bible-written-faq.htm

It is generally agreed that the Book of Matthew was the first Gospel written and that it was written between A.D. 50 and 75. Of the four Gospel's, John's is considered to have been the last one written, around A.D. 85. The Book of Acts, a historical account of the establishment of the early Christian church, is believed to have been written by one of the Apostle Paul's associates, around A.D. 62 (near the end of Paul's imprisonment in Rome).

See also:

http://www.carm.org/christianity/bible/when-was-bible-written-and-who-wrote-it


Offline indie boi

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #323 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 03:12 PM »
Akala ko ako lang ang nahilo kakabasa nun ...  :D

Oh, well ...   :(
We seem to be encountering a "translation" problem.  :)

Offline tigkal

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #324 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 03:13 PM »
According to a priest's sermon, there are only three reasons to believe in God.You believe in God because you want to go to heaven, You believe in God because you do not want to go to hell, and you believe in God because he is God. I think religion is too much focused on the heaven and hell reward and punishment recruitment game. I look at those leaflets by religious sects and I always see the threat of Hell or the reward of heaven. Nothing of the third kind. I guess they want to recruit faster.

I have yet to encounter a religion that focus on God and doing good works, and no mention of heaven or hell. I mean one who focus on beliefs and works, and leave the judgment to God upon your death. Karamihan kasi ng religion decides they are the one. Parang kinuha na nila ang karapatan mag judge from God..Kaya minsan mas okay pa yung mga atheist/agnostics, kasi they just do good(i hope), just in case that heaven and hell thingy is true..

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #325 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 06:00 PM »

siguro sadyang ganyan ang tao. maisangguni nga kay brad pete, este bro. eli ;D


Tama, makinig na lang tayo kay Brod Pete. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OspTahz_Ix8&feature=PlayList&p=069B44FB8EB2E861&index=9

Alien!

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #326 on: Oct 22, 2009 at 09:21 PM »
Also, Karen Armstrong's The Great Transformation.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #327 on: Oct 30, 2009 at 01:14 AM »
http://forum-network.org/lecture/joss-whedon-cultural-humanist

The event is one hour and thirty minutes long. Who knew he had something to say about cultural humanism outside of staking a vampire? Oh yeah, I did. But it's nice to see him discuss it at length with a mix of people who were both fans and students.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2009 at 01:16 AM by Dan »

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #328 on: Nov 01, 2009 at 05:32 PM »
Just sharing...
I'm a Catholic, I go to church every Sunday. ... I had a friend who is a Muslim told me that Jesus' birth and crucifixion was a made up. I didn't tell him that Muhamad "claimed" that he was talking to God, some point in time he forced people to join his religion or they will kill you, he practice polygamy but forbids fornication coz you can't have sex out of "many marriages"...Muhamad, Buddha and Confucius lived about hundred years BEFORE Jesus (considered Jesus as a NEW generation of Prophets by Muslims). How come there are no evidence of Jesus' Crucifixion and birth? Well except Pliny the younger's writings about 1st century Christians. Fast forward >>> After Jesus died St. Peter (including some people who knew Jesus) traveled Rome to preach Jesus' teachings. Nero was the Emperor during that time and ordered his men to prosecute Christians although he knew St. Peter personally, they killed and burned everything Christian. Some experts believed those who witnessed Crucifixion were killed in the Great Fire of Rome. So evidences and witnesses are eradicated. This somehow convinced me that Jesus is real and St. Peter as the first Pope.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter#Traditions_concerning_martyrdom
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2009 at 05:58 PM by jmigs »

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #329 on: Nov 01, 2009 at 06:49 PM »
Just sharing...
I'm a Catholic, I go to church every Sunday. ... I had a friend who is a Muslim told me that Jesus' birth and crucifixion was a made up. I didn't tell him that Muhamad "claimed" that he was talking to God, some point in time he forced people to join his religion or they will kill you, he practice polygamy but forbids fornication coz you can't have sex out of "many marriages"...Muhamad, Buddha and Confucius lived about hundred years BEFORE Jesus (considered Jesus as a NEW generation of Prophets by Muslims). How come there are no evidence of Jesus' Crucifixion and birth? Well except Pliny the younger's writings about 1st century Christians. Fast forward >>> After Jesus died St. Peter (including some people who knew Jesus) traveled Rome to preach Jesus' teachings. Nero was the Emperor during that time and ordered his men to prosecute Christians although he knew St. Peter personally, they killed and burned everything Christian. Some experts believed those who witnessed Crucifixion were killed in the Great Fire of Rome. So evidences and witnesses are eradicated. This somehow convinced me that Jesus is real and St. Peter as the first Pope.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter#Traditions_concerning_martyrdom

muslims consider Jesus/Isa a prophet.

ever heard of the Crusades? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades