Author Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines  (Read 84770 times)

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Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1020 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 01:29 AM »
Atheists and Agnostics who believe they are Gods
That's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one, unless you meant it as a thinly veiled insult—but all you succeeded in was projection.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1021 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 01:39 AM »
I think these people deny openly that they are Gods. Within themselves is another story.
« Last Edit: Apr 16, 2011 at 01:42 AM by rascal101 »

Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1022 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 04:32 AM »
I think these people deny openly that they are Gods. Within themselves is another story.
Do you also think that people who don't believe in dwarves deny that they are dwarves, within themselves, that is? Deep inside?

Oh, I know, I know.

Those Christians who don't believe in the Pope? They openly deny within themselves (whatever that means) that they're the ecclesiastical head of the Catholic Church, right?
« Last Edit: Apr 16, 2011 at 04:40 AM by alistair »

Offline sardaukar

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1023 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 06:27 AM »
All you atheists watch out!


Christian girl thanks God for the earthquake & tragedy in Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZjqznnl88g&feature=share

Offline RU9

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1024 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 02:38 PM »
It is Catholics who impose their will. Not atheists. Most atheists don't seek to outlaw religion or religious practice just keeping it out of government.

Agree.

John Galt, in Atlas Shrugged

"You have heard no concepts of morality but the mystical or the social. ... For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors–between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it."

Offline indie boi

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1025 on: Apr 16, 2011 at 02:53 PM »
Naku, you introduced egoism. :)

Offline sardaukar

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1026 on: Apr 24, 2011 at 10:41 AM »
Happy Easter!



Offline indie boi

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1027 on: Apr 24, 2011 at 11:18 AM »
LOL! Happy Easter as well. Hope you guys have started looking for those pagan representations of fertility. :)

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1028 on: Apr 24, 2011 at 09:35 PM »
I like to call Easter Zombie Jesus Day.

Offline RU9

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1029 on: May 17, 2011 at 09:50 AM »
Physicist Stephen Hawking believes there is no afterlife, and that the concept of heaven is a "fairy story" for people who fear death.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he told the Guardian's Ian Sample. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20063168-503543.html#ixzz1MZq7EtU6



Offline Dilbert7

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1030 on: May 29, 2011 at 12:21 AM »
Physicist Stephen Hawking believes there is no afterlife, and that the concept of heaven is a "fairy story" for people who fear death.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he told the Guardian's Ian Sample. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20063168-503543.html#ixzz1MZq7EtU6





He is entitled to his own delusions (as everybody has) - he also needs company, just in case. His words is not absolute, isn't it?

If health is to be the basis, I would say he should not even be opening his mouth.

Of course, his co-believers are happy for his declaration. I would say, they should be given opportunity to be happy on their belief.

To me, let's settle the issue when we stand on judgment day before the creator - just in case the other camp is correct. Even if the majority of today's world population agree with Hawking, their description will continue to stand - clueless!

Since matters of belief are too subjective, then I think "cluelessness" will be basically applied to all of us, no matter how much hot air went to any declaration, hawking included!

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1031 on: May 29, 2011 at 12:34 AM »
Religious fanatics are FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more deluded than atheists.

Offline JT

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1032 on: May 30, 2011 at 09:30 AM »
Religious fanatics are FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more deluded than atheists.

I totally agree with you that’s why man cannot be saved by religion. Only by personal relationship thru the Lord Jesus Christ.

Psalm 93:2 says "Your throne was established long ago; you are from all ETERNITY." But then Ecclesiastes 3:11 says “He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set ETERNITY in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.”

So no one can fully understand God using his intellect because God has written Eternal nature in our hearts, not in our minds. No wonder bible also says “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’”.

And what does the Bible mean when it says “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’? Both Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1 read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Some take these verses to indicate that atheists are stupid, i.e., lacking intelligence. However, that is not the meaning of the Hebrew word translated “fool.” In this text, the Hebrew word is nabal which refers more to a “moral fool,” e.g., someone without morals. The meaning of the text is not “unintelligent people do not believe in God.” Rather, the meaning of the text is “immoral people do not believe in God.”

Many atheists are very intelligent individuals. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of morals that leads a person to reject belief in God. People do not reject the idea of there being a Creator Being. Rather, people reject the idea of there being a Creator Being who demands morality from His creation. In order to clear their consciences and relieve themselves of guilt, people reject the idea of God as the only source of absolute morality. Doing so allows atheists to live however they choose—as morally or immorally as they desire—with no feelings of guilt for their refusal to be accountable to God.

Several prominent atheists have admitted this. One famous atheist, when asked what he hopes to accomplish through atheism, declared that he wants “to drink as much alcohol and have sex with as many women as possible.” Belief in a divine Being is accompanied by a feeling of accountability and responsibility toward that Being. So, to escape from the condemnation of conscience, which itself was created by God, one must deny the existence of God in order to deny the moral pull of the conscience.

This is not to say that all atheists are immoral people. Many atheists live relatively moral lives. The point of “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” is that a lack of evidence of His existence is not the true reason people reject belief in God. People reject belief in God due to a desire to live free of the moral constraints He requires and to escape the guilt that accompanies the violation of those constraints. “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them … men are without excuse … their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools … Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie” (Romans 1:18-25).


Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1033 on: May 30, 2011 at 12:13 PM »
Quote
People reject belief in God due to a desire to live free of the moral constraints He requires and to escape the guilt that accompanies the violation of those constraints.

Not true at all. I do think a huge chunk of atheists don't believe in God or say they know there is no God based on scientific evidence, not because they don't like "moral constraints".

It's similar to saying that the only thing stopping you from raping and killing people is a belief in God.

Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1034 on: May 30, 2011 at 03:04 PM »
It is a lack of morals that leads a person to reject belief in God. People do not reject the idea of there being a Creator Being. Rather, people reject the idea of there being a Creator Being who demands morality from His creation. In order to clear their consciences and relieve themselves of guilt, people reject the idea of God as the only source of absolute morality.
Can you kindly answer: Which is moral, to worship at home, at the synagogue, at the mosque, or at the Cathedral? Every Friday, or Saturday, or Sunday? Using which book: the Qur'an, the Bhagavad Gita, Hebrew Scriptures, or one of the dozens of versions of the Christian Bible?

Is it moral to eat pork? To smoke? To drink alcohol? Or transfuse blood? Or use contraception? Or hang rapists?

Is it moral to cause the deaths of thousands of non-believers? Is it moral to invade a country in retaliation for the same?

Offline JT

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1035 on: May 30, 2011 at 04:16 PM »
Can you kindly answer: Which is moral, to worship at home, at the synagogue, at the mosque, or at the Cathedral? Every Friday, or Saturday, or Sunday? Using which book: the Qur'an, the Bhagavad Gita, Hebrew Scriptures, or one of the dozens of versions of the Christian Bible?

Is it moral to eat pork? To smoke? To drink alcohol? Or transfuse blood? Or use contraception? Or hang rapists?

Is it moral to cause the deaths of thousands of non-believers? Is it moral to invade a country in retaliation for the same?

What exactly is your point? Are you really expecting an answer or just being sarcastic? I can also fill this topic with questions of morality.

Better if you just state your case or better yet ask smart questions.


Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1036 on: May 30, 2011 at 05:19 PM »
What exactly is your point? Are you really expecting an answer or just being sarcastic? I can also fill this topic with questions of morality.

Better if you just state your case or better yet ask smart questions.
You posit that atheists/agnostics reject God to escape responsibility for their moral actions.

I'm merely questioning the implicit statement that morality can only come from faith.

There are those who would stone an underage rape victim to death according to the tenets of their faith. Do you think they're acting morally?

Millions of people pray to religious icons daily. I suspect you disagree that they're being moral. On the other hand, they would think that if you don't receive the Eucharist every Sunday then you're being immoral.

Since faith is largely subjective, by your logic then morality becomes subjective.

Or—perhaps there's another way to arrive at answers to questions of morality, that are not dependent upon belief in the supernatural or some such diety?

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1037 on: May 30, 2011 at 05:38 PM »
I think "personal" morality is very much subjective: food, drugs, gambling, sexuality, clothing, entertainment preferences, etc. As long as it doesn't directly impede on the personal freedoms of others, it's really up to you what you consider "moral" and "immoral". As long as you don't steal, rape, molest, kill, endanger OTHER people, it's your freakin' business.

Offline tigkal

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1038 on: May 31, 2011 at 07:04 AM »
I remember what my father said to me that conflict starts when we impose our beliefs and morals to other people. And Atheists in general does not impose their beliefs. It is the Religious that impose their beliefs since it is mandated in their religion that spreading the good news to other people is one's responsibility.

Atheists do good because it is the right thing to do. Religious do good because they want to go to heaven/does not want to go to hell. Same deed, different reasons. In my discussion with the religious, I pose a scenario that what if there is no promise of heaven, would they still be religious? I cannot get a direct answer. Or what if aliens would visit the earth and all things written in the bible will be explained logically and all the miracles will be explained/duplicated scientifically including making of adam and eve. Would it change their beliefs?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1039 on: May 31, 2011 at 08:56 AM »

Atheists do good because it is the right thing to do. Religious do good because they want to go to heaven/does not want to go to hell.


you are right to mention "Religious"...

but true Christian doesnt do good in order to go to heaven (or dont want to go to hell)...
true Chrsitians do good because they are son of God.
it is natural for true Christians to do good.
those who do good because they dont want to go heal (or want to go to heaven)... they are not true Christian... they are just religious...





Atheists do good because it is the right thing to do.


right before their own eyes?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1040 on: May 31, 2011 at 09:25 AM »
right before their own eyes?
No, according to their pastor's interpretation of their version of the Bible.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1041 on: May 31, 2011 at 11:23 AM »
No, according to their pastor's interpretation of their version of the Bible.

huh.. may mga pastor ang atheist?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1042 on: May 31, 2011 at 11:37 AM »


Scandinavian Nonbelievers, Which Is Not to Say Atheists
By PETER STEINFELS
Published: February 27, 2009

... Anyone who has paid attention knows that Denmark and Sweden are among the least religious nations in the world. Polls asking about belief in God, the importance of religion in people’s lives, belief in life after death or church attendance consistently bear this out.

It is also well known that in various rankings of nations by life expectancy, child welfare, literacy, schooling, economic equality, standard of living and competitiveness, Denmark and Sweden stand in the first tier.

Well documented though they may be, these two sets of facts run up against the assumption of many Americans that a society where religion is minimal would be, in Mr. Zuckerman’s words, “rampant with immorality, full of evil and teeming with depravity.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/us/28beliefs.html?pagewanted=all



Society Without God
by Phil Zuckerman
(2008)


http://www.amazon.com/Society-without-God-Religious-Contentment/dp/0814797148

« Last Edit: May 31, 2011 at 11:46 AM by barrister »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1043 on: May 31, 2011 at 12:05 PM »
Christopher Hitchens once said that religion is based on the fear of death and hatred of sex.

Prove him wrong, religious conservatives.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1044 on: May 31, 2011 at 12:33 PM »
Christopher Hitchens once said that religion is based on the fear of death and hatred of sex.

Prove him wrong, religious conservatives.

you are talking about 'false religion'...


true religion/Christians are not afraid of death... and they hate sex outside of marriage... and treat sex as sacred within marriage... and must be enjoyed by husband and wife only.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline tigkal

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1045 on: May 31, 2011 at 01:30 PM »

you are right to mention "Religious"...

but true Christian doesnt do good in order to go to heaven (or dont want to go to hell)...
true Chrsitians do good because they are son of God.
it is natural for true Christians to do good.
those who do good because they dont want to go heal (or want to go to heaven)... they are not true Christian... they are just religious...





right before their own eyes?

So even if there is no promise of heaven there will be still be true Christians? What religion has no reward policy and still have followers?

Right as defined by them.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1046 on: May 31, 2011 at 02:07 PM »
So even if there is no promise of heaven there will be still be true Christians? What religion has no reward policy and still have followers?

none... because true Christianity is not  a religion...


Right as defined by them.

how do atheist define right and wrong? based on what? ang right and wrong ba sa kanila ay 'as long as no one affected'? or base sa civil law ang right and wrong nila... kung ano sinasabi ng government iyon ang tama para sa kanila... or kung ano ang dinidikta ng society iyon ang tama para sa kanila...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1047 on: May 31, 2011 at 02:15 PM »
"Hasa Diga Eebowai" - a wonderful song from the new hit Broadway musical The Book of Mormon from the guys who did South Park. I'd like to gauge the reaction of our more religious members to this song.

Offline alistair

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1048 on: May 31, 2011 at 02:44 PM »
none... because true Christianity is not  a religion...
Let's rephrase. If Christ didn't promise you heaven, would you still act according to what the Bible tells you to do?

Quote
how do atheist define right and wrong?
For the umpteenth time, ethics. You know, based on reason or rational thinking, not belief.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1049 on: May 31, 2011 at 03:40 PM »
For the umpteenth time, ethics. You know, based on reason or rational thinking, not belief.

then... based on their own rational thinking... based on what they believe what is right and wrong...

hmm... ethics change ... right?


Let's rephrase. If Christ didn't promise you heaven, would you still act according to what the Bible tells you to do?

as i told you... true Christian never act (do good) because they want to go to heaven... they do good because it is but natural for them to do good... a true Christians never follow Jesus because he/she wants to go to heaven...

i tell you this... if there is someone here na gumagawa ng mabuti para pumunta ng langit or if someone here follows Jesus because they wanted to go to heaven... then they are not true follower of Christ...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011 at 03:46 PM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.