Author Topic: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines  (Read 84932 times)

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Offline Ice Storm

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1200 on: Jan 01, 2015 at 02:22 PM »
I think anyone who belittles others' belief system is anti-social.

But the question is what came first? A belief in a God/Gods or no God/Gods?

Who did the belittling or persecuting first? Who has executed whom?

The thing with Pope Francis is he says that what is important for non-believers is that they do "good works".

I tell the atheists/agnostics that I know that if all of a sudden everyone switches to their sides a lot of suicides will happen and society as we know it would collapse as the fear of God/Gods is the only thing keeping a lot of Pinoys in line.

I am also glad that most Pinoys are into mainstream religions as at least they are somewhat predictable.

As for Richard Dawkins he's just doing it in compliance with Exodus 21:24. Not so long ago believers stone people to death for blasphemy. Those unlucky were burned at the stake.

Offline devlin_waugh

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1201 on: Jan 02, 2015 at 01:16 PM »
^it's still happening in most parts of the world....

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1202 on: Jan 02, 2015 at 03:50 PM »

Dawkins, Bin Laden, and the Little Honey Pot
By Ilisha on November 11, 2013
in Feature, Loon People
 
... In the summer of 2011, Rebecca Watson found herself alone in an elevator with a man at an atheist convention. The man propositioned her, and the encounter made her uncomfortable. She decided to use the incident as an example of how not to behave at a public event, where she believed women were entitled to feel safe and comfortable.
 
Richard Dawkins thought her complaint was petty, so he publicly ridiculed her. Watson is a fellow atheist, but for Dawkins, apparently anything objectionable is all about religion, even when it’s not. So he ridiculed Watson’s concerns by belittling her, and simultaneously insulting Muslims:

Dear Muslima
 
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and … yawn … don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

 
Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so …

Rebecca Watson was not amused.
 
But the torment didn’t end with Dawkins’ condescending Dear Muslima taunt. His apparent fans picked up the torch and began a campaign of relentless harassment:

Dawkins’ seal of approval only encouraged the haters. My YouTube page and many of my videos were flooded with rape “jokes,” threats, objectifying insults, and slurs. A few individuals sent me hundreds of messages, promising to never leave me alone. My Wikipedia page was vandalized. Graphic photos of dead bodies were posted to my Facebook page…
 
A man planning to attend an upcoming conference with Rebecca Watson even threatened to assault her, stating on Twitter that if he saw her on an elevator, he would “cop a feel.” Watson wrote about her disappointment at the sexism and harassment coming from what she referred to as the “skeptic community.”
 
... Once again, evidence atheism does not make one immune to sexism, hypocrisy, or any of the other human flaws Dawkins often attributes to the faithful.
 

=====================================

 
Despite his dismissal of Watson’s concerns as petty, it seems Richard Dawkins is not above pettiness himself, on matters far more trivial than sexual harassment.

Despite knowing it was against the rules, he apparently tried to smuggle a little jar of honey onto flight from Edinburgh to Heathrow. The honey was confiscated and discarded, prompting Dawkins to Tweet his consternation:

Bin Laden has won, in airports of the world every day. I had a little jar of honey, now thrown away by rule-bound dundridges. STUPID waste.
 
Yes, Osama Bin Laden has won. The singular goal of his existence was clearly to deprive the very bitter Richard Dawkins of his sweet little jar of honey. And to make us have to take our shoes off every time we go through airport security. He wins. Every. Day.
 
One of the world’s foremost evolutionary biologists was trifling over a little jar of honey. Instead of rallying troops to his campaign as he had with Watson a couple of years back, he was subjected to ridicule...
 
... Maybe it’s time to write Dawkins a letter that starts out something like this: “Dear Brother Dawkins, stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, we know you had your little jar of honey confiscated….”
 
http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/11/dawkins-bin-laden-and-the-little-honey-pot/
« Last Edit: Jan 02, 2015 at 03:58 PM by barrister »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1203 on: Jan 02, 2015 at 11:06 PM »

I am also glad that most Pinoys are into mainstream religions as at least they are somewhat predictable.

I think that's how a lot of our corrupt government officials think as well. Being religious makes us subservient to authority and making a lot of us unable to think critically and openly. That's why it took us more than 300 years to kick out the Spaniards. 

Offline Ice Storm

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1204 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:13 AM »
I think that's how a lot of our corrupt government officials think as well. Being religious makes us subservient to authority and making a lot of us unable to think critically and openly. That's why it took us more than 300 years to kick out the Spaniards. 

And how long before anyone had the balls to kick out Marcos? Cardinal Sin had to intervene. That is why CBCP is so bold to dictate policy on the country. Without them Cory would be nothing. This is very true as professors of a prominent grad school recommended it to her govt during all the coups she had to endure.

But hey, it makes our society a great source for OFWs.

Always a follower, rarely a leader when it comes to seafarers.
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:18 AM by Ice Storm »

Offline dodie

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1205 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:52 AM »
ang hindi ko lang maintindihan sa pananaw ng walang dyos ng eh bakit parang ang hirap nilang paniwalain sa batas ng diyos na hindi naman ikapapahamak ng sumusunod dito. bagkus ay baka naturuan pa sya nitong maging isang mabuting tao! eh samantalang sila naman ay sumusunod sa batas ng estado na kanilang kinabinilangan na mas matindi pa nga ang pisikal na parusa kumpara sa pataw na parusa ng ibat ibang relihiyon......

I think that's how a lot of our corrupt government officials think as well. Being religious makes us subservient to authority and making a lot of us unable to think critically and openly. That's why it took us more than 300 years to kick out the Spaniards. 
by being atheist doesnt necessarily follow that your can be an open or critical thinker, you can be shallow and dumb too. and kicking out someone powerful has nothing to to with being critical, it is was you called bravery!
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Offline Ice Storm

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1206 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 02:28 AM »
Jesus Christ is portrayed as "The Good Shepherd" and his followers are collectively often referred to as a "flock".

Flocks are often populated by sheep.

Sheeps arent known for bravery but obedient followers. Blind faith is often promoted.

Hence the rise of the term "Doubting Thomas" as a negative amongst the followers.

In contrast to the Islamic belief system that promotes jihad when their belief system/way of life is in peril.

Again, I'm not against people being obedient sheep. It allows us black sheep to pull ahead in society as there is less competition on resources and opportunities.

Yes, it's true that there are non-believers who are no better. Education is key.

ang hindi ko lang maintindihan sa pananaw ng walang dyos ng eh bakit parang ang hirap nilang paniwalain sa batas ng diyos na hindi naman ikapapahamak ng sumusunod dito. bagkus ay baka naturuan pa sya nitong maging isang mabuting tao! eh samantalang sila naman ay sumusunod sa batas ng estado na kanilang kinabinilangan na mas matindi pa nga ang pisikal na parusa kumpara sa pataw na parusa ng ibat ibang relihiyon......
by being atheist doesnt necessarily follow that your can be an open or critical thinker, you can be shallow and dumb too. and kicking out someone powerful has nothing to to with being critical, it is was you called bravery!


Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1207 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 09:31 AM »

Again, I'm not against people being obedient sheep. It allows us black sheep to pull ahead in society as there is less competition on resources and opportunities.


you mean worldy resources/oppurtunities? or of with spritual/heavenly values?

Jesus Christ is portrayed as "The Good Shepherd" and his followers are collectively often referred to as a "flock".

Flocks are often populated by sheep.

Sheeps arent known for bravery but obedient followers. Blind faith is often promoted.

Hence the rise of the term "Doubting Thomas" as a negative amongst the followers.


As far as I know, hindi pa ako nakakita ng true Christian na duwag? One characteristic or attributes ng isang true Christian is bravery...

Moses who bravely face the Pharaoh, Jesus bravely face His own death, Daniel never kneels to idol kahit na utos ng hari and then face the Lion, David fought Goliath kahit higante nakalaban niya, a missionary sa bansang China or other communist country, true Christians persecuted both by catholic and protestants endured tortures pero hindi nila nideny ang faith nila...

i believe those who are in doubt ay ang mga duwag...

as we can see those who are afraid of hell and punishment are those who are always in doubt and mga duwag... ex. eto ang mga taong madaling magpakamatay... doesnt have enough courage/brave to face the reality of life kasi wala silang pinanghahawakang pangako... sila ang mga taong dahil sa takot sa impiyerno/punishment ang mga taong mapamahiin at super religioius... :):):)

Jesus' true followers or as i called them true Christian cannot be compared to ordinary sheep... sila ang mga extraordinary sheep redeemed by the blood of their own Shepherd... sila ang mga sheeps who walks in the midst of wolves... never call God's sheeps coward...
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2015 at 09:37 AM by dpogs »
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Offline leomarley

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1208 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 09:45 AM »
FYI, dpogs, Moses and Jesus were not Christians.

Offline dodie

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1209 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 10:23 AM »

Again, I'm not against people being obedient sheep. It allows us black sheep to pull ahead in society as there is less competition on resources and opportunities.

Yes, it's true that there are non-believers who are no better. Education is key.

pulling ahead in terms of what sir? are you saying that you can be better in everything if you dont have a religion?
btw, what im asking po, eh ano ang ikakasama namin sa pagsunod sa batas ng diyos? what are the laws of god that may be considered detrimental sa existence ng believers sa mundong ito?


Sheeps arent known for bravery but obedient followers. Blind faith is often promoted.


youve taken the bravery thing in a different context sir. anyway, what makes you more brave than us? not on the religious side of life, but in the real world?

 



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Offline dpogs

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1210 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 11:02 AM »
FYI, dpogs, Moses and Jesus were not Christians.

you're right there... Jesus is not a sheep... He's a shepherd :)

though Moses and old testament characters... i may call them Christian kahit na sa panahon ng Apostles pa nabuo ang word na Christian... since old and new testaments books speaks the same theme - the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

all God's children, old and new testament, i may refer to them as God's sheep...
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Offline dodie

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1211 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:34 PM »
 "   if atheism is favored by science, evidence and reason, why is it such at a disadvantage against religious beliefs that often comes with credulity? The biggest word that comes to my mind when I think about this question is arrogance. As long as arrogance lingers amongst the vocal proponents of atheism, I just do not see it prospering despite the feeding programs, conventions, public debates and media mileage etc etc.

     Ever heard of Salmoneus? In Greek mythology, Salmoneus was a prince who led a group of colonists to the Peloponesse and established the kingdom of Salmonia in the region later known as Pylos or western Messenia. Salmoneus was an arrogant and impious man who commanded his people worship him as the god Zeus. He impersonated the divinity by driving around in a chariot dragging bronze kettles to make thunder, and casting torches in the air for lightning. Zeus was angered and struck Salmoneus dead with a thunderbolt and laid waste to his city.
Here is another good mythical story.
     A long time ago the whole earth had one language, and the same words. One day the people found a plain in the land of Shinar, and dwelt there. The people said one to another, come  on, let us make bricks, and burn [them] thoroughly! And they had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. Then they said, Come on, let us build ourselves a city and a tower, the top of which [may reach] to the heavens; and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered over the face of the whole earth!
      Then God came down to see the city and the tower which the people built. God said, behold, the people is one, and have all one language; and this have they begun to do. And now will they be hindered in nothing that they meditate doing. Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
And God scattered them thence over the face of the whole earth.
    The story of Salmoneus and the Tower of Babel has one thing in common, they both teach us the folly of arrogance. The story of the Tower of Babel also shows man's need to erect symbols of his achievement. When the people built the tower, it wasnt built for God but a monument to themselves. Their intention was to reach heaven with it and proclaim themselves gods.
     Some may ask: Why was there a need for an omnipotent god to confound the people's language? Was God so insecure of Himself that He felt threatened by the tower being erected by the people? No, it wasn't about God's insecurity. The biblical mythology already depicts that the tower was never a threat to God. There was never any chance that it could actually reach heaven. In the story's case, it's not actually the deed (building the tower) that was the problem; it was the attitude of the people. The Babylonians were arrogant believing themselves to be all-Powerful. We don't have to look far to see similar arrogance in organizations and folks with  atheist leanings.
     if we notice the atheist approach and especially when they refuse to rationalize their own arguments and perspectives to the same kind of critical assessments that they demand of theists, their sincerity comes into question. In other words, when one spends so much time in a prolonged debate with one or more of these types of self-professed atheists, it becomes very apparent that there is absolutely no real desire to engage in a balanced, open, and reasonable discussion with theists. They express no desire to actually learn about what theists believe. Instead, they continually articulate the same old straw man arguments emphasizing their stereotypical characterization of theists (e.g. Christians) because it makes it easy for them to justify their rejection and in some cases, hatred of theists. A polemic built on intellectual laziness.
     How different would the assertion: “I do not believe a deity exists” be from “I believe a deity does not exist.”? This splitting of hair is what self-professing atheists use to avoid having to shoulder the burden of proof for their position (denial of the existence of God).
If atheism is simply the “lack of belief” in God, that self-professing atheists just don’t make any claims about God and that they don’t make any God postulates or that they simply don’t take God seriously, that is okay. But if one is to make a claim, such as “God DOES NOT exist” or “God IS inexistent” or god is a delusional or merely an imaginary product,  then the claimant also has the burden of proof for the claim(s). Self-professing atheists who make such claims deny that God exists while, at the same time, deny that they have a burden of proof.  they want theists to prove their belief in God, but they don’t want to have to prove their belief in the non-existence of God. In other words, they refuse to provide the evidence for their belief while severely criticizing theists for failing to do the same. And if I may add, demanding that theists step out of their cocoon in order to meet the atheist mindset. Well, that is called hypocrisy and if I may add, arrogance as well.
     Dont get  me wrong, I do agree that theism ought to be subjected to critique but atheism should not be about knocking down straw man in its critical analysis of theism. Projecting theists as merely non-thinking coddlers of an imaginary being to suggest more credibility to the atheist position is revolting and bone chilling at its very core. For thousands of years, religious belief has been accompanied by thought and intellectual discovery. In addition, projecting that theists are primarily driven by their own selfish motivation for salvation is smacking of ignorance and lack of empathy. Self-professing atheists who make such derogatory projections of theists do not do any service to atheism by characterizing people (a lot who are sincere in their goodwill intentions) that way. Again, this attitude comes across as a bit arrogant and characterizing faith as something only idiots would attach themselves to wont help atheism's case and cause.
    A lot of self-professed atheists assert that theists are delusional. A lot of self-professed atheists seem to condemn theism because of its past record of having caused too many atrocities and that it deals with ridiculous life experience questions. But on the same token, self-professed atheists are being delusional as well if they think they can kill theism simply by exposing theism's folly.
     I agree that religious zeal in the past has resulted in many atrocities and unimaginable terror ,the Crusades and the Inquisition immediately come to mind. However, atrocities and terror are not specific to religious inclinations! In the Enlightenment period, the proponents of anti-religion insisted that the universe and human nature could be understood and controlled by the rational mind. They saw the universe was ruled exclusively by consistent laws such as Newton's law of gravity. Such laws can be explained mathematically or scientifically. The Enlightenment empowered those who argued that superstition, blind instinct and ignorance had to be eradicated. Immanuel Kant, in anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View asserted that Africans were inherently predisposed to slavery. The Enlightenment gave the world the scientific racism adopted as an ideological reason for murder by 19th and 20th century despots. Those who could not be educated and reformed, radical Enlightenment thinkers began to argue, should be eliminated so they could no longer poison human society. The Jacobins who seized control during the French Revolution were among the first in a long line of totalitarian monsters who justified murder by invoking supposedly enlightened ideals. Again, many lives were devastated from the roots of arrogance and powerlust.
     Mythology and even history seem to teach us that whenever we try to put ourselves on the throne, we seem to suffer for it. Dont get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with achieving great things. There is nothing wrong with trying to do the best one can do and strive for a little more. These things are not bad, its when we use them to define who we are and show others how special we are that these things become personal towers of Babel. Its the attitude, not the tower that is the problem.
It seems to me that organizations with inclinations to atheism are tools serving as the personal Tower of Babel of many atheists in the country. While it is true that many of the members are intelligent and articulate individuals and while it is true that a lot of them have embarked on admirable pursuits such as social activism and community support programs, a lot of them still seem to be unable to recognize that genuine honor and respect are not gained through noise and mere dole-outs and bragging of one's intellect while undermining others. Much like Salmoneus, they wont gain respect by driving around in a chariot dragging bronze kettles to make thunder, and casting torches in the air for lightning. As long as arrogance dominates the attitude of proponents of atheism, I think atheism womt succeed."

exerpt from the writing of : hec gamboa
 
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Offline Ice Storm

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1212 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:44 PM »
you mean worldy resources/oppurtunities? or of with spritual/heavenly values?

As far as I know, hindi pa ako nakakita ng true Christian na duwag? One characteristic or attributes ng isang true Christian is bravery...

Moses who bravely face the Pharaoh, Jesus bravely face His own death, Daniel never kneels to idol kahit na utos ng hari and then face the Lion, David fought Goliath kahit higante nakalaban niya, a missionary sa bansang China or other communist country, true Christians persecuted both by catholic and protestants endured tortures pero hindi nila nideny ang faith nila...

i believe those who are in doubt ay ang mga duwag...

as we can see those who are afraid of hell and punishment are those who are always in doubt and mga duwag... ex. eto ang mga taong madaling magpakamatay... doesnt have enough courage/brave to face the reality of life kasi wala silang pinanghahawakang pangako... sila ang mga taong dahil sa takot sa impiyerno/punishment ang mga taong mapamahiin at super religioius... :):):)

Jesus' true followers or as i called them true Christian cannot be compared to ordinary sheep... sila ang mga extraordinary sheep redeemed by the blood of their own Shepherd... sila ang mga sheeps who walks in the midst of wolves... never call God's sheeps coward...
Still obsessed with the afterlife and not on this mortal plane? :)

Christians (the conservative/fundamentalist types) are largely subservient. They will be brave upon being called on but it is not their natural state unless it jeopardises their target of heaven.

Please, OT is different from NT. Unless you want to reverse yourself on that.

300+ years of Spanish Christian Rule for the Luzon and Visayas and 0+ years for Mindanao.

21+ years of Marcos until Cardinal Sin stepped in.

Subservient, blindly subservient.
pulling ahead in terms of what sir? are you saying that you can be better in everything if you dont have a religion?
btw, what im asking po, eh ano ang ikakasama namin sa pagsunod sa batas ng diyos? what are the laws of god that may be considered detrimental sa existence ng believers sa mundong ito?

youve taken the bravery thing in a different context sir. anyway, what makes you more brave than us? not on the religious side of life, but in the real world?
My standards are different from your standards. What you see as materialism & thus by default "sin" is a necessity unless hangang tulo laway lang ako at ingit. Not to mention medical care is f-ing expensive so those who lived simply tend to perish simply as medical care is out of reach. Which is OK lang cause the meek will inherit the earth.

A lot of successful people such as Jobs, Gates, Vanderbilt, Sy, Tan, Rothschild & Morgan did not allow a belief system shackle their success. One can say they will all heading to Satan. These types of people are the reason why Exodus 20:8 had to be stated.

And all I am saying is that Pope Francis got it right when he said what is important is good works. If is it in parallel to God's Law (as defined by the Christian faith) then good for them.

What the current Pope has down and I am all for is the change of tack of the belief. Rather than being obsessed with condoms, morning after pills, gays, lesbians and any other sort of "depravity" he is moving it forward to the core mission mercy and compassion for the poor.

If Christians today were as illiterate as those before the printing press than the obsession with the fags and sexual prophylactics would fly kaso almost everyone is literate and can see what overpopulation can do in given biosphere.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1213 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 01:55 PM »
Still obsessed with the afterlife and not on this mortal plane? :)

Christians (the conservative/fundamentalist types) are largely subservient. They will be brave upon being called on but it is not their natural state unless it jeopardises their target of heaven.

Please, OT is different from NT. Unless you want to reverse yourself on that.

300+ years of Spanish Christian Rule for the Luzon and Visayas and 0+ years for Mindanao.

21+ years of Marcos until Cardinal Sin stepped in.

Subservient, blindly subservient.My standards are different from your standards. What you see as materialism & thus by default "sin" is a necessity unless hangang tulo laway lang ako at ingit. Not to mention medical care is f-ing expensive so those who lived simply tend to perish simply as medical care is out of reach. Which is OK lang cause the meek will inherit the earth.

A lot of successful people such as Jobs, Gates, Vanderbilt, Sy, Tan, Rothschild & Morgan did not allow a belief system shackle their success. One can say they will all heading to Satan. These types of people are the reason why Exodus 20:8 had to be stated.

And all I am saying is that Pope Francis got it right when he said what is important is good works. If is it in parallel to God's Law (as defined by the Christian faith) then good for them.

What the current Pope has down and I am all for is the change of tack of the belief. Rather than being obsessed with condoms, morning after pills, gays, lesbians and any other sort of "depravity" he is moving it forward to the core mission mercy and compassion for the poor.

If Christians today were as illiterate as those before the printing press than the obsession with the fags and sexual prophylactics would fly kaso almost everyone is literate and can see what overpopulation can do in given biosphere.

Still obsessed with the afterlife and not on this mortal plane? :)

Christians (the conservative/fundamentalist types) are largely subservient. They will be brave upon being called on but it is not their natural state unless it jeopardises their target of heaven.

Please, OT is different from NT. Unless you want to reverse yourself on that.

300+ years of Spanish Christian Rule for the Luzon and Visayas and 0+ years for Mindanao.

21+ years of Marcos until Cardinal Sin stepped in.

Subservient, blindly subservient.My standards are different from your standards. What you see as materialism & thus by default "sin" is a necessity unless hangang tulo laway lang ako at ingit. Not to mention medical care is f-ing expensive so those who lived simply tend to perish simply as medical care is out of reach. Which is OK lang cause the meek will inherit the earth.

A lot of successful people such as Jobs, Gates, Vanderbilt, Sy, Tan, Rothschild & Morgan did not allow a belief system shackle their success. One can say they will all heading to Satan. These types of people are the reason why Exodus 20:8 had to be stated.

And all I am saying is that Pope Francis got it right when he said what is important is good works. If is it in parallel to God's Law (as defined by the Christian faith) then good for them.

What the current Pope has down and I am all for is the change of tack of the belief. Rather than being obsessed with condoms, morning after pills, gays, lesbians and any other sort of "depravity" he is moving it forward to the core mission mercy and compassion for the poor.

If Christians today were as illiterate as those before the printing press than the obsession with the fags and sexual prophylactics would fly kaso almost everyone is literate and can see what overpopulation can do in given biosphere.

i am speaking about "true" Christians... and i dont believe that Spanish brings Christianity in the Philippines...

:)
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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1214 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 02:07 PM »
i am speaking about "true" Christians... and i dont believe that Spanish brings Christianity in the Philippines...

:)
Arent fundamentalists and conservatives "true" Christians? :)

And the Spanish did bring Christianity to the Philippines unless you are of the same mindset as Joseph Smith.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1215 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 03:25 PM »
you're right there... Jesus is not a sheep... He's a shepherd :)

though Moses and old testament characters... i may call them Christian kahit na sa panahon ng Apostles pa nabuo ang word na Christian... since old and new testaments books speaks the same theme - the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

all God's children, old and new testament, i may refer to them as God's sheep...

You are right. It is faith that makes Moses a christian. Though they still don't have a name for the coming saviour, they are still considered christians because of their faith sa coming saviour.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1216 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 03:28 PM »
Arent fundamentalists and conservatives "true" Christians? :)

Christians are the followers and believers of Jesus Christ. Kung paano mo siya expound is up to whatever you may read and interpret sa bible.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1217 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 04:22 PM »
Arent fundamentalists and conservatives "true" Christians? :)

No, they are not.
 

And the Spanish did bring Christianity to the Philippines unless you are of the same mindset as Joseph Smith.

Catholicism is not the same as Christianity.
 
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2015 at 04:22 PM by barrister »

Offline barrister

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1218 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 05:08 PM »
As far as I know, hindi pa ako nakakita ng true Christian na duwag? One characteristic or attributes ng isang true Christian is bravery...

Tama.  Kaya nga hindi nila maintidihan ang mga sitas na ito:
 
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Mt. 10:34-36)

51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” (Lk. 12:51-53)


Did Christ come to bring peace or not?  ;)
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2015 at 05:09 PM by barrister »

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1219 on: Jan 03, 2015 at 06:03 PM »
You are right. It is faith that makes Moses a christian. Though they still don't have a name for the coming saviour, they are still considered christians because of their faith sa coming saviour.

You are merely claiming them as Christians but they are not. How could they be Christians if they have not been taught or learned about the New Testament or the teachings of Christ?

On the topic of "true" Christians, what are the characteristics that make them "true" Christians? who decides who are "true" Christians? I don't care much for Bible verses because they will always be subject to interpretation. No disrespect but if you guys want to discuss Bible verses then discuss it in the other thread: http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,170692.0.html

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1221 on: Jan 04, 2015 at 07:33 AM »
no complaints here re: discussion, very interesting point raise by peeps who believe.   pero parang na hijack na yata ang thread :)
ninjababez online ..

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1222 on: Feb 02, 2015 at 03:09 AM »
There is no "good atheist"...
There is none righteous, no not one.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1223 on: Feb 02, 2015 at 06:10 AM »
There is no "good atheist"...

This made my day. Walang kupas :)

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1224 on: Feb 02, 2015 at 06:26 AM »
i can also say there are no "good christians". then again, i wouldn't stoop down to that level of ignorance.
« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2015 at 06:32 AM by leomarley »

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1225 on: Feb 02, 2015 at 07:14 AM »
they dont even have the "standard of morality" on the first place... :)
There is none righteous, no not one.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1226 on: Feb 02, 2015 at 09:50 AM »
Isa lang naman destinasyon ng bawat tao. Magkakaalaman din sa bandang huli. Kahit ano pa sabihin ninyo maniwala at hindi mas mabuti ng preparado. Alangan naman nasa harapan ka ng panginoon tapos sabihin mo pasensya na kasi sabi ng mga matatalinong tao walang diyos kaya hindi ako naniwala.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1227 on: Feb 03, 2015 at 07:04 AM »
morality can be construed to fit someone's belief. it is too subjective. anyone can have their own "standard of morality" and having a "standard of morality" doesn't necessarily make you a good person. that is why i prefer to use empathy rather than morality.


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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1228 on: Feb 03, 2015 at 07:16 AM »
its true... "having" a standard of morality doesnt necesarilly make you a good person...

its just like "having" a Bible doesnt make you a good person... or "having" read the ten commandments doesnt make you a good person... even "knowing" how to be good person doesnt necesarily makes you a good person...

"emphaty" - what is the role of "emphaty" in evolution?
« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2015 at 07:29 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

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Re: Atheism/Agnosticism in the Philippines
« Reply #1229 on: Feb 03, 2015 at 08:15 AM »
morality can be construed to fit someone's belief. it is too subjective. anyone can have their own "standard of morality" and having a "standard of morality" doesn't necessarily make you a good person. that is why i prefer to use empathy rather than morality.

Ang personal standard of empathy can also be construed depende sa kina-lakihan mo. Minsan may effect din ang morals mo as to how you will understand what another person/s is experiencing. It seems to be interwoven.