Author Topic: Biasing Dynaco MK3 & which KT88 brand best fits for a hi-fi application?  (Read 36649 times)

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Offline Tube Pro

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Then here's some stuff from China:

1/4-W, 1/2-W, 2-Watt, 3-Watt & 5-Watt resistors.
We can't buy tingi-tingi there, kaya ung 10K ko 200 pcs...  :D
But they are just cheap, it costs only RMB 6.00 (around P48.00):


25-Watt Dummy Load Resistors:

« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2009 at 01:23 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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The Filter Capacitors: (Quad Cap module)
For the meantime, I'll just use these Rubycons as this is just the available good brand I saw when I went there.
I upgraded the PS filter quad caps from the original 40uF to 75uF ( two 150uF in Series). I'll do this series method because what I've got are 250v and 400v WV caps, as my B+ is about 500vAC.





Quad Cap PCB:






with the unsoldered caps. (nilagay ko lang, excited makita ang module, to be updated when all the  bleeder resistors and mylar caps are soldered in places) ;D

« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2009 at 02:14 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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Potentiometer for negative bias adjustment:
10K 2W








I have 4 pcs... was planning to have individual bias for each output tube, but now I think better to have one adjustment for a matched pair tubes.

Is it right? Any suggestion? ???
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2009 at 01:41 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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Jacks & Plugs:




Fuse holder:
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2009 at 01:41 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

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Power Transformer:


insulating the bolts. will change it pag nakakita ako nung thicker plastic spacer... :(


UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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Voltage checking:


with the Digital Panel Meter:


« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2009 at 01:42 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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After the initial measurement, I've found out that some of the secondary voltages are slightly higher than the specified values, especially those for Filament supplies.

The 12.6vAC @ 5A measures around 13.58~13.6vAC at no load. This is for the pre-amp and output tubes.
The 5vAC @ 4A measures 5.65vAC. (for rectifier tube).


Any comment if these voltage increments are just tolerable for the circuit?
 ???
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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After the initial measurement, I've found out that some of the secondary voltages are slightly higher than the specified values, especially those for Filament supplies.

The 12.6vAC @ 5A measures around 13.58~13.6vAC at no load. This is for the pre-amp and output tubes.
The 5vAC @ 4A measures 5.65vAC. (for rectifier tube).


Any comment if these voltage increments are just tolerable for the circuit?
 ???

Do you know your primary voltage when you did your measurements? Turns ratio is fixed so it varies with input voltage, I bet that the 220 volt input is somewhat higher. What I am trying to say is that there are two ways by which your secondary voltage will vary, one is by primary voltage, the other is the loaded voltage, you will find that once loaded, those voltages will dip, by how much we do not know yet. You can check that once you have wired up your heaters.

 

Btw, in building your amp, the heaters gets wired first, once done you can then check voltages and see if they are within range, for the 6.3 volts, anywhere between 5.9 to 6.9 is okey, so for 12.6 volts, 11.8 to 13.8 is fine. They will still go down once the amp B+ is connected and playing music.

 

The way I see it , there is nothing to be concerned about, not yet anyway. In any case should the voltages be higher when things are completed, you can add a small resistor in series to bring the voltages down, but I doubt that it will come to that.

 

I see you posted question about resistors, tube amps in the old days used carbon composition resistors of  5, 10 and even 20 percent. I see no reason to use 1% types today, but do not let me stop you. Carbon composition resistors are best used as grid stoppers, carbon films can be used almost anywhere….

 

tony

----------------------------

Thanks Sir TonyT!
 :)
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2009 at 02:10 PM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

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update:
Quad Caps (just soldered): :D
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

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Quad Cap module:





still waiting for the KT88 tubes... :-\
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline edrel sison

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great account of the build, keep them coming!

Offline Tube Pro

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great account of the build, keep them coming!

Thanks Much sir Edrel,  :)

By the way, I was about to send PM to you regarding this inquiry about the power transformer we were just discussing through e-mails. As you have suggested, I need to have two of this trannies, one for each channel (monoblock).
But since I'm planning to have these two channels in a single chassis, can you please quote me on the power transformer I need for these 2x60~75watts/ch KT88 tube amp? I will be using a couple of 5AR4 (or GZ34) rectifiers in parallel. Do you think the adequate current for the 5-volt winding is at least 6A?
Also, are the two 6.3-volt windings @ 5A (one for each channel) fine for this circuit?
TIA.  :)
You can PM the quotation.
Thanks again sir.


UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline s2kov

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make sure that the 5ar4 rectifier tube does not exceed 60uF for capacitor input and 10H for choke input in the psu section.


The Filter Capacitors: (Quad Cap module)
For the meantime, I'll just use these Rubycons as this is just the available good brand I saw when I went there.
I upgraded the PS filter quad caps from the original 40uF to 75uF ( two 150uF in Series). I'll do this series method because what I've got are 250v and 400v WV caps, as my B+ is about 500vAC.



Quad Cap PCB:

with the unsoldered caps. (nilagay ko lang, excited makita ang module, to be updated when all the  bleeder resistors and mylar caps are soldered in places) ;D


« Last Edit: Oct 04, 2009 at 06:24 PM by s2kov »

Offline Tube Pro

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make sure that the 5ar4 rectifier tube does not exceed 60uF for capacitor input and 10H for choke input in the psu section.



Hi s2kov,
Thanks for the early reminder sir. Anyway I still haven't connected this Quad cap module to my rectifiers tube yet. You're correct. I even checked the 5AR4 data sheet and confirmed that the maximun capacitance (condenser input filter) is really 60uF. Now I'm gonna change some of the values of the quad caps.

For the first filter stage, (see below), C1 and C2 will be both changed to 100uF/400v which is a 50uF/800v equivalent as they are series connected. Should be safe.

Question: Is it SAFE if I'll just replace one 150uF to 100uF and leave the other 150uF in the module?
It will give an equivalent value of 60uF, which is at the maximum rating. Any suggestion? ???

And how about the next filter stages? C3 & C4 (equivalent to 166uF) is the stage after the 5H choke coil providing B+ for the output transformer. Is this value too large for its purpose?

Also C5--C6 & C7--C8, both equivalent to 75uF, for the phase inverter and driver stages respectively. Are those values still safe then? ???


Thanks in advance. :)
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2009 at 12:41 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline s2kov

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Hi Tube Pro,

I suggest you use the PSU II simulation and see if the B+ will still 480V. Using high capacitance on the 1st filter stage will result to high B+ which you may not running the amp on the desired operating point. :) 


Hi s2kov,
Thanks for the early reminder sir. Anyway I still haven't connected this Quad cap module to my rectifiers tube yet. You're correct. I even checked the 5AR4 data sheet and confirmed that the maximun capacitance (condenser input filter) is really 60uF. Now I'm gonna change some of the values of the quad caps.

For the first filter stage, (see below), C1 and C2 will be both changed to 100uF/400v which is a 50uF/800v equivalent as they are series connected. Should be safe.

Question: Is it SAFE if I'll just replace one 150uF to 100uF and leave the other 150uF in the module?
It will give an equivalent value of 60uF, which is at the maximum rating. Any suggestion? ???

And how about the next filter stages? C3 & C4 (equivalent to 166uF) is the stage after the 5H choke coil providing B+ for the output transformer. Is this value too large for its purpose?

Also C5--C6 & C7--C8, both equivalent to 75uF, for the phase inverter and driver stages respectively. Are those values still safe then? ???


Thanks in advance. :)

Offline ATJr.

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hi joel,

the caps that you have now are not seen on tube amps of the old days, they were simplynot available then..... that is why designers had to make circuits that could use available  parts during that time.....

today is a new era, there are better capacitors, such as the ones you have, so there is better way than using tube rects, imagine the 30 watts or so of transformer power that you can save if only you forgo tube rectification and used sand "rectumfiers" instead. ;D ;D ;D
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline s2kov

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with the high capacitance caps you have right now, silicon diodes are waiting to sit beside those caps! ;D
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2009 at 08:53 PM by s2kov »

Offline Tube Pro

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hi joel,

the caps that you have now are not seen on tube amps of the old days, they were simplynot available then..... that is why designers had to make circuits that could use available  parts during that time.....

today is a new era, there are better capacitors, such as the ones you have, so there is better way than using tube rects, imagine the 30 watts or so of transformer power that you can save if only you forgo tube rectification and used sand "rectumfiers" instead. ;D ;D ;D

Hi Master TonyT,
Another one good input as with sir s2kov.
Your suggestions sound practical. Imagine from around US$ 20.00 to 6 pesoses (4 pcs 1N4007 @ P1.50 ea) :D
and yes, less stress to the power transformer. Also according to Master JojoD818, 1N4007 Rectumfier is a good alternative.
Salamat uli mga sirs... 8)

with the high capacitance caps you have right now, silicon diodes are waiting to sit beside those caps! ;D
Hi sir s2kov,
Thanks for the suggestions, I am almost convinced shifting to ss rectumfiers.
Baka maging "FOR SALE" na rin 'tong Sovtek 5Y3GT.
 ;D
« Last Edit: Oct 07, 2009 at 12:55 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline s2kov

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teka, para saan yang 5y3 ??? nde ba 125mA lng yan?

Offline Tube Pro

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teka, para saan yang 5y3 ??? nde ba 125mA lng yan?

para po sana sa DIY pre amp ko. But I think I'm gonna use the ss recties with doubler ckt.
5AR4 or GZ34 po sana for this KT88 amp. What do you think, should I really go to ss?
Or still the 5AR4, and reduce quad capacitance values to 50uF? ::)
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline s2kov

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kung gusto mo try mo adopt sa MK3 yung replacement PS board na ginawa ni curcio sa ST70. Concept of the design is you can either use SS or tube rectification.


para po sana sa DIY pre amp ko. But I think I'm gonna use the ss recties with doubler ckt.
5AR4 or GZ34 po sana for this KT88 amp. What do you think, should I really go to ss?
Or still the 5AR4, and reduce quad capacitance values to 50uF? ::)
« Last Edit: Oct 06, 2009 at 11:27 PM by s2kov »

Offline JojoD818

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Pag nag ss rects ka pwede mo na din regulate yun frontend...


Offline Tube Pro

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kung gusto mo try mo adopt sa MK3 yung replacement PS board na ginawa ni curcio sa ST70. Concept of the design is you can either use SS or tube rectification.



Yes sir,
parang from curcio's design ko nakuha ung quad cap modification. I just got higher capacitance, (wasn't able to find 100uF's), so I went to bigger values without looking at the rectifier's datasheet.
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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Pag nag ss rects ka pwede mo na din regulate yun frontend...



Exactly MasterJ,
I already have the N-channel MosFET (IRF840) and series of zener diodes if ever I regulate the supply.
Worried lang if this FET can withstand the high input voltage as it only has a max rating of 500v. Haven't experienced with HV regulator circuits yet.  ;D
I have done some regulated PSUs, pero max of +-50volts lang.  ;D ;D ;D
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline edrel sison

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Hi Joel,

You can decide first on the voltage outputs and current capacity before I quote. I suggest go for monoblocks but if you really want it you can do stereo in one chassis. BY the way may I ask what kind of speakers do you have to couple with this amp?

Offline Tube Pro

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Hi Joel,

You can decide first on the voltage outputs and current capacity before I quote. I suggest go for monoblocks but if you really want it you can do stereo in one chassis. BY the way may I ask what kind of speakers do you have to couple with this amp?

Hi sir Edrel,
Sure, I'll decide the final rating first as well as the rectifier; if I will still use the tube or ss device.
will do some experiment with this transformer I have now.
For the meantime, I have my old Pioneer CS-979 3-way speaker system for this amp.
the specs in the below link:
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/PIONEER-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-CS-979-1-PAIR-MADE-IN-JAPAN_W0QQitemZ250498475026QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:SG:103

« Last Edit: Oct 08, 2009 at 12:27 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline ATJr.

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Hi joel,

meron pa bang carbon composition resistors dyan? ;D
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline Tube Pro

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Hi joel,

meron pa bang carbon composition resistors dyan? ;D

Hi Sir TonyT,

I think meron pa rin d2. Although marihap lang bumili sa mga chekwa na hindi marunong mag english. I always print the picture of the component or parts that I'm gonna buy and show it to the salesperson. Minsan they can't still recognize what it is, except resistors, capacitors, and ss basta may value, ayun nagkakaintindihan kami.
So sa resistor, I'll just take kung ano nalang ang ibigay nilang klase, (marihap kasing i-describe 'though may picture na), like carbon film, metal oxide, metal film, and minsan may napapasamang carbon composition type din, usually 5% tolerance, (meron din 1% ang ibang values)
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2009 at 01:57 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

Offline Tube Pro

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Sir TonyT,

I bought some 330 ohms 5watts resistors last monday and what I've got were different from what I was expecting like a rectangular cement type wirewound. these are cylindrical-axial type which I think a carbon composition resistor. Are they?
See pictures below:
(I've included some 1-watt resistors and a chip amp IC so you can visualize its real size)

« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2009 at 01:57 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!

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make sure that the 5ar4 rectifier tube does not exceed 60uF for capacitor input and 10H for choke input in the psu section.



Hi Sir s2kov,

Now I have the version 2 of the Quad Cap. All caps are changed to 100uF/400v. That way, each series pair is equivalent to 50uF/800v now.
I used breadboard type PCB muna. So so busy pa sa work, have no time etching.  ;D
Stock ko muna ung version 1 if I decide to go for a ss rectifier later.


are those resistors metal film type?
 ???
What's their difference with the metal oxide in terms of physical appearance? How to recognize them easily?
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2009 at 02:06 AM by Tube Pro »
UNIVAC: a device, which contained 20,000 vacuum tubes!