Author Topic: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp  (Read 356975 times)

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Offline gutierrez

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #270 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 08:29 AM »
Too good to be true for a tube amp of that price.  Have you in any way ask yourself what's inside of that amp, will it sound really good even at the very least of an audiophile level? is it durable in a long run and etc?  You know, my wife has a very little knowledge about electronics as in very little (ipod and creative speakers ok na sa kanya) but when i told her about a tube amp that cost less than 10K, she raised her eyebrow and said "Ano ba 'yon, meron bang ganon? hindi kaya sunog-bahay 'yon?"  Imagine, for a person na walang hilig sa hobby natin eh nagkaroon pa ng doubt ng sabihin ko sa kanya ito.  Well how much more pa sa atin.  Anyway, this is a personal choice, you buy the amp, you take the risk.  Mine is just an opinion.  Peace & Good luck :)



What's your audio setup?  If I may ask.  I just acquired a modified sakura amp and it's waaay better than my ss Harman integrated amp, which is about 3x i'ts price (modified sakura pricing).  I could let you listen to my setup and I'm sure that you'd change your perception about cheap electronic devices.  I was hesitant at first but when I listened to it, I immediately grabbed one.  Even the unmodified Sakura sounds good, the only difference is that the modified sounds cleaner and better staging, everything else are the same.

Offline gutierrez

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #271 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 08:32 AM »
And besides, whatever the insides of the amp are what matters most is the quality of sound it produces.  In terms of durability, I'd say that it will always depend on the user.  I've no intention to argue, just stating my opinion about your opinion.

Offline cHiNo2728

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #272 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 08:58 AM »
If I may add my two cents worth:

Everyone has a point, however it all boils down to the cost. I could buy 4 or 5 AV-200T's for the price of one single DIY or Branded Tube amp. Pag nasira, pwede naman parepair and upgade na din. I also look at it in a way that more people who have never experienced the joy of listening to a hybrid tube amp, will now be able to without spending a lot of cash for their gears. Mas maraming napapasaya mas maganda. Yung lang po ang aking palagay!

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Offline leftover

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #273 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:04 AM »
Opinions are better left unsaid much more if yours sounds like "bashing" a product without even trying it! Mayroon nagsasabing pangit ang gawang china, at meron din namang sulit daw kasi mura...so what i did is bumili ako ng cd player, dvd player atbp sa raon and i can safely say, based on my experience, nakatsamba ako ng matibay and they are still serving me though ocassionally na lang.

Eto opinion ko, yung nabibiling mga china-made na dvd/cd players sa raon karamihan cheapo ang dating pero kahit nakakarinig ako na madaling masira, nagtry pa rin ako, at sa halaga ng mga ito sulit na yung pinambili ko kasi halos 5 yrs na sa akin at di pa sira.

Why dont you try this sakura bago mo sabihing sayang ang pera...marami ka maaantagonize niyan bro

Peace! Happy xmas :D

Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #274 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:08 AM »
I am using the Amadeus SR#1 KT88 & Maestro SE 845 (Direct Heated Triode) amps, Sonus Faber Grand Piano Speakers and Garrard / NAD C542 players.

What's your audio setup?  If I may ask.  I just acquired a modified sakura amp and it's waaay better than my ss Harman integrated amp, which is about 3x i'ts price (modified sakura pricing).  I could let you listen to my setup and I'm sure that you'd change your perception about cheap electronic devices.  I was hesitant at first but when I listened to it, I immediately grabbed one.  Even the unmodified Sakura sounds good, the only difference is that the modified sounds cleaner and better staging, everything else are the same.
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Offline leftover

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #275 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:12 AM »
I am using the Amadeus SR#1 KT88 & Maestro SE 845 (Direct Heated Triode) amps, Sonus Faber Grand Piano Speakers and Garrard / NAD C542 players.


Wow, great set-up. Pricey. Siguro naman pag nagtry ka ng sakura na worth 7k(modified) chicken feed lang sa iyo bro. Try it then post your final opinion/review of the product. :)

Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AMP
« Reply #276 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:16 AM »
Of course you have to check the components used and it depends on your budget.  Siyempre during the process mag-uusap kayo ng DIYer kung anong ang gusto mong mangyari sa amp na gagwin niya para sa iyo.  Unless you agree doon sa cheapo parts, eh depende na lang sa preference mo.  Puwede mo naman buksan iyong loob ng amp kaharap iyong DIYer para makita mo kung how well it was built.  Regardless kung close kayo or hindi nung DIYer, but at least both of you have reach a certain level of agreement kung anong klaseng amp ang gusto mo na gagawin niya para sa iyo based doon sa budget mo...Right?

obviously, its just your  opinion and you are entitled to it.
better check the unit first. i dont own one yet, but i have listened and checked the build quality from a friend.quite impressed based on price ,performance and build ratios.
how sure are you that those you mentioned & some diyers who commission work  dont use raon or cheap parts from time to time, close ba kayo
 peace...:)
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Offline dana

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #277 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:25 AM »
Wow, great set-up. Pricey. Siguro naman pag nagtry ka ng sakura na worth 7k(modified) chicken feed lang sa iyo bro. Try it then post your final opinion/review of the product. :)

agree. wow, pricey set up, im sure.if you feel like it,try to borrow  a sakura or grab one and make an honest to goodness sound comparison/evaluation  before ending it with a period.:)

Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #278 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:34 AM »
You're right about this, there are many Chinese products that are well built, likewise many also were not good.  Once I owned a Sakura amp several years back (2002) which was bought from Raon, nice sounding SS amp and I used it for karaoke.  However, medyo in doubt lang ako dito sa A 200T which it turned out a hybrid amp pala.  The reason why I'm saying this, sa tube amplification dapat meticulously designed & crafted otherwise it will sound bad.

Opinions are better left unsaid much more if yours sounds like "bashing" a product without even trying it! Mayroon nagsasabing pangit ang gawang china, at meron din namang sulit daw kasi mura...so what i did is bumili ako ng cd player, dvd player atbp sa raon and i can safely say, based on my experience, nakatsamba ako ng matibay and they are still serving me though ocassionally na lang.

Eto opinion ko, yung nabibiling mga china-made na dvd/cd players sa raon karamihan cheapo ang dating pero kahit nakakarinig ako na madaling masira, nagtry pa rin ako, at sa halaga ng mga ito sulit na yung pinambili ko kasi halos 5 yrs na sa akin at di pa sira.

Why dont you try this sakura bago mo sabihing sayang ang pera...marami ka maaantagonize niyan bro

Peace! Happy xmas :D
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Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #279 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:38 AM »
Let me check the amp one of these days.  :) Thanks

agree. wow, pricey set up, im sure.if you feel like it,try to borrow  a sakura or grab one and make an honest to goodness sound comparison/evaluation  before ending it with a period.:)
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Offline dana

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #280 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:53 AM »
And besides, whatever the insides of the amp are what matters most is the quality of sound it produces.  In terms of durability, I'd say that it will always depend on the user.  I've no intention to argue, just stating my opinion about your opinion.

yes, generally its in the pudding, what it taste. not everybody in this hobby, especially the newbies around understand what a cheapo part looks like.for all they know, they are looking at them closely but still cant recognize that it is cheap. its a gift sometimes to detect one. also, its an advantage if you are deep into this hobby  and been reading/learning  around or electronics engg literate. what's important I believe is the tried and tested circuit topology used and observing the correct part ratings...the parts   & the unit's reliability, well that's the manufacturer's job or option...possible waterloo to sustain his business if he can't address possible future RMA/CMA , market complaint issues :)

Offline JojoD818

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #281 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 09:58 AM »
Imo, not all China made gears are bad, especially when a company outsources their labor there and sends in a company representative for strict quality compliance.

What should be avoided are some of the backyard operators, which reminds me of those cheap Lithium Polymer battery chargers wherein it charges at 12.6V but uses 10V rated caps.  ::)


Offline JojoD818

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #282 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:06 AM »
yes, generally its in the pudding, what it taste. not everybody in this hobby, especially the newbies around understand what a cheapo part looks like.for all they know, they are looking at them closely but still cant recognize that it is cheap. its a gift sometimes to detect one. also, its an advantage if you are deep into this hobby  and been reading/learning  around or electronics engg literate. what's important I believe is the tried and tested circuit topology used and observing the correct part ratings...the parts   & the unit's reliability, well that's the manufacturer's job or option...possible waterloo to sustain his business if he can't address possible future RMA/CMA , market complaint issues :)

I believe the warranty from the Chinese manufacturer of this product is non-existent. The local distro should be the one to absorb warranty repairs/replacement.

Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #283 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM »
Agree ako kase I just learned na hybrid amp pala ito.  I have nothing against sa hybrid amp regardless kung saan pa gawa ito.  Once I thought acquiring one but never materialized.

If I may add my two cents worth:

Everyone has a point, however it all boils down to the cost. I could buy 4 or 5 AV-200T's for the price of one single DIY or Branded Tube amp. Pag nasira, pwede naman parepair and upgade na din. I also look at it in a way that more people who have never experienced the joy of listening to a hybrid tube amp, will now be able to without spending a lot of cash for their gears. Mas maraming napapasaya mas maganda. Yung lang po ang aking palagay!

Happy Holidays po!  ;D
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Offline JojoD818

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #284 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:12 AM »
becuase labor is dirt cheap in china, no labor unions to disrupt factory operations, no haggling for pay increases...etc.....etc....they can come up with really cheap goods......many times better than we can here in PI......

but mind you, technlogy comes from such places as the US and European union countries.....this is inevitable....

this amp is now on the very top of my "to do" list once i am back.....

i will dissect this amp and report finding here....

this amp is the best you can buy "for the money".....period.... ;D

a close friend says they work for food and shelter? and they work fast too for they must reach a certain quota for the day.

maybe we should convert to communism so we can build dirt cheap gears like they do.  ;)

ot: you're coming home for the holidays? i'm still hoping one day you can bring home a box of ak47s... ;D ;D ;D

btt: reverse engineer a schematic for me will you please...  ;D


Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #285 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM »
I agree :)

Imo, not all China made gears are bad, especially when a company outsources their labor there and sends in a company representative for strict quality compliance.

What should be avoided are some of the backyard operators, which reminds me of those cheap Lithium Polymer battery chargers wherein it charges at 12.6V but uses 10V rated caps.  ::)


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Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #286 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:26 AM »
Perhaps the reason was stability. 

OT: a lot of folks here have no idea of what that word means, they just don't care... :'(

neither do i..... ;D

but i do care when we get sidetracked, like the national panasonic closing shop here, and Intel moving to Vietnam.....tsk...tsk...we really love to shoot ourselves in the foot... :'(
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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #287 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM »
in the end, it is still us users who would be the better judge kung sayang ung pera natin o hindi sa binili natin. as for me and, perhaps, the others who bought the subject amp, i think we could all say na hindi sayang ang pera namin. for the price and the sound quality, it is very much worth it.

as for the durability, i echo the opinion of the others that it depends on the user. if you are a careless owner, no matter how expensive your gears are, it will easily breakdown. being aware of the prevailing notion that china made products are not that durable, we are already forewarned and, thus, should exercise extra care in using the product.

just my thoughts...

thanks.
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

Offline kenchix1

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #288 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:31 AM »
whoaaa...hold your horses.....this Sakua amp is a hybrid amp....ss output and tubed buffer input......no sense to compare with a pure tubed amp...

Tanong ko lang sir, when you say SS output and tube buffer input what does it mean ba ? parang the same ba yan sa SS amp na nilagyang ng tube buffer ? pacencia na sir, di ko alam pano imagine, newbie lang.

Thanks. :)
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM by kenchix1 »

Offline Signal2Noise

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #289 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM »
Military Hardwares :)

growing up, i used to hear this, "gawang Hapon, sira sa hapon..."

then came korean tv's.....

and taiwan.....before china.....

this is a natural reaction of folks that have a hard time shedding off their colonial mentality....

i wonder, are there still those among us who thinks that "US made" goods are best?
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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #290 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM »
I believe the warranty from the Chinese manufacturer of this product is non-existent. The local distro should be the one to absorb warranty repairs/replacement.

agree.if the local distro receive so much complaints from these, the best option is just terminate business relationship with china counterpart (manufacturer directly, maybe).sourcing na lan ulet sa china ;D.but sakura is sakura, its been in the market na rin for sometime. so, it must have proven its brand na rin, maybe.. china will soon or already moving forward from these "inferiority complex products", supplying  almost the rest of the world thru outsourcing mfg activities.aside from those mentioned by sir tony, halos lahat ng support industries, nandun na thus, making it really cheap to produce/support  new product developments.

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #291 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM »
if only we can get our acts together, instead of pulling each other down....

blame it on the crabs.  ;D
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

Offline JojoD818

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #292 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 10:54 AM »
OT: a lot of folks here have no idea of what that word means, they just don't care... :'(

neither do i..... ;D

but i do care when we get sidetracked, like the national panasonic closing shop here, and Intel moving to Vietnam.....tsk...tsk...we really love to shoot ourselves in the foot... :'(


indeed we do.  ;D

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #293 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM »
agree.if the local distro receive so much complaints from these, the best option is just terminate business relationship with china counterpart (manufacturer directly, maybe).sourcing na lan ulet sa china ;D.but sakura is sakura, its been in the market na rin for sometime. so, it must have proven its brand na rin, maybe.. china will soon or already moving forward from these "inferiority complex products", supplying  almost the rest of the world thru outsourcing mfg activities.aside from those mentioned by sir tony, halos lahat ng support industries, nandun na thus, making it really cheap to produce/support  new product developments.

I agree, the sakura amp we used to amplifier the electronic organ at church still works. But not just because it's a sakura, but because the topology used in there was already proven to be robust.

OT: even the movie 2012 outsourced the building of the arks in China.  ;) ;D


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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #294 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM »
growing up, i used to hear this, "gawang Hapon, sira sa hapon..."

then came korean tv's.....

and taiwan.....before china.....

this is a natural reaction of folks that have a hard time shedding off their colonial mentality....

i wonder, are there still those among us who thinks that "US made" goods are best?


hahaha! I remember our relatives in Angeles, Pampanga uses "state-side" kitchen gears only.

but I think the problem with Japan made stuff before was communication, they don't have the proper user's manual for their products that's why they broke more often. unlike US-made stuff where it has to be able to withstand a war and still function.  ;D

even the US-made  M-16 broke a lot during the Vietnam conflict, not because of it's plastic parts, but because soldiers didn't read the manual. ;D ;D ;D


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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #295 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM »
A Chow Chan DVD player is not good as a Philips/HK/Sony/Pioneer DVD players assembled in China.
A Luk Lai Amplifier is not as good as the NAD/Cambridge that were assembled in PRC.
A Ling Ma Ref is not as good and durable as GE / Westinghouse that were assembled in China or Korea.
A Cheng Du loudspeakers is not as good as the B&W or Monitor Audio that were assembled in China.
A Strawberry Car is not as good and safe as the Chrysler or Toyota that were assembled somewhere in SEA.
A chinese brand vacuum tube is not as good as the RCA/GE/Brimar/Raytheon & other NOS electron devices.
This are probably the reasons why the notion still exists.  It's not about the colonial mentality.
Other countries think the same when it comes to chinese brands, not brands that were patented and assembled in china.  It's 2 different things.  

growing up, i used to hear this, "gawang Hapon, sira sa hapon..."

then came korean tv's.....

and taiwan.....before china.....

this is a natural reaction of folks that have a hard time shedding off their colonial mentality....

i wonder, are there still those among us who thinks that "US made" goods are best?
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2009 at 11:27 AM by Signal2Noise »
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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #296 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM »
if you read jojoD's post in the earlier pages, you will find what i mean... ;D

Done reading back from page 11 to 1 searching for sir Jojo's post on each page, didn't find any or probably I just don't understand because of the complexity of the conversation. Thanks anyway sir.

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #297 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 12:51 PM »
Tanong ko lang sir, when you say SS output and tube buffer input what does it mean ba ? parang the same ba yan sa SS amp na nilagyang ng tube buffer ? pacencia na sir, di ko alam pano imagine, newbie lang.

Thanks. :)





Yes pareho lang, ganyan ang ginawa sa av200 with the exception na tube rectified yun input buffer.

Done reading back from page 11 to 1 searching for sir Jojo's post on each page, didn't find any or probably I just don't understand because of the complexity of the conversation. Thanks anyway sir.


When you say tube buffer input and ss output it means that the "amplification" is still done by the ss output stage and the tube buffer only has a gain of 1 (kaya nga po buffer). That is how this av200 is Sir.

On the other hand, it is also possible for a hybrid amp (tube input/ss output) to have the "amplification" done by the tube section (gainstage na ito, hindi na tube buffer ang tawag), it is then followed by a "power follower" (often times referred to as a current amplifier) that has a gain of 1 which drives the speaker.

To recap, there are 2 ways to make a hybrid.
1. Tube buffer input -> SS amp output stage
2. Tube gainstage input -> SS power follower

I hope this clears things for you Sir.

Cheers



Edit:
There's a 3rd way pa pala, you can use high current voltage regulators and use them as power followers too to drive speakers, the gain is still dictated by the tubes in such a case.

« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2009 at 12:55 PM by JojoD818 »

Offline iiinas

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #298 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 01:26 PM »

To recap, there are 2 ways to make a hybrid.
1. Tube buffer input -> SS amp output stage
2. Tube gainstage input -> SS power follower

I hope this clears things for you Sir.

Cheers

Edit:
There's a 3rd way pa pala, you can use high current voltage regulators and use them as power followers too to drive speakers, the gain is still dictated by the tubes in such a case.


question master, the hybrid gainclone i got from you is an example of the second way? tube gainstage -- ss follower?

Offline JojoD818

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Re: SAKURA AV-200T Tube Amp
« Reply #299 on: Nov 18, 2009 at 01:32 PM »
question master, the hybrid gainclone i got from you is an example of the second way? tube gainstage -- ss follower?

that's correct Sir...