Topic: CD Players surplus

[sandawa]

for collection and satisfaction of bringing back to life an electronic marvel. i have two dozen CDPs, mostly upscale, all working perfectly and about half a dozen lemons that i can't fix. each time i was able to resurrect a unit felt like winning a lottery. i first thought my behaviour wasn't normal, until i realized there are thousands like me from the Audio Karma roster alone.

[james16]

ang swerte ko dun sa sony 501es ko, more than a year old sakin at bugbog sarado sa pagpa-play... 

natuwa nga ako at nde sya nahihirapan magbasa din ng cdrs...

nabili ko ito nung 1st time ko sa pier at kasama ko si nels76 (sya nagsabi na kunin ko ito dahil es series at ang bigat nya)

[Lord Foo]

Just curious why bother with first generation CDPs that were quite notorious for nearly unlistenable sonics?  The first consumer SONYs and Phllips, while built like tanks, used inaccurate 14-bit and 16-bit DACs considered operationally inferior to today's highly accurate 18-20-bit converters.   

Hi Sir Av_Phile1,

You're one of my idols here in this forum. I read with interest your posts in other threads. I couldn't butt in though since I don't have the technical savvy most of you guys have in the forum. I can agree with you about the inferiority of the 1st gen CDP's even without knowing much about them. I'm not collecting them though.

I have been asked by Axel of Vintage Knob to keep an eye for them and help him pick up one or two at the surplus stores. I really don't know which units belong to the generation that's why i asked the forum.  However, my 2 cents worth, I can appreciate the "covetous fever" that can afflict a collector when he tries to gather historical gems. Sir Sandawa's vision of donating his collection to UP 10 to 15 years from now is also a worthwhile effort and the result if fruitfull will outlast all of us here for generations. Samples of the 1st gen units would be invaluable parts of the collection since they would detail one of the momentous milestones in the history of audio technology.

i guess the situation is different with the vintage Sansui amps and receivers which can keep up with some of the models which came out later.

A new Ford Car will run rings around a vintage Ford Car but people collect them anyway. A friend of mine from the La Salle academe, paid a fortune for a hand cranked "gramophone" that frankly just "squeaked" out the music and he was damn proud of that gear.

Finally, all that being said about historical value, there's probably money in them gears. Years from now their value will most probably climb up astronomically.

[Lord Foo]

oh i am so dumb!!! 

 Axel pointed me to his site.  for the list of 1st Gen CD players:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/DAD-main.html

and for the timeline...

http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/DAD-timeline.html

Sir Sandawa, do you have any of these early CD Players in your collection?

[ATJr.]

guys,
let me caution you all, the achilles heel of the cd player is its "laser head" 3000 hours seems a resonable expectation, so when it finally conks out, you may have a hard time finding replacements.

[sandawa]

2ny, that's true (how come, compared with others, i agree with almost all of your observations?). in my computation that's only up to 10 years of regular use. i posted this same caution three years ago when the first batch of audio enthusiasts in this forum were buying early '80s "surplus" (recycled is more appropriate) CDPs, and i was not. i was proven wrong though since they were happy with their finds even after one year of use (probably those Jap 20-yr old CDPs were hardly used by their owners). that's when i started to accumulate CDPs from only 3 non-recycled units back in 2002. so far most of my acquisitions are doing okay.

your post should be a fair warning for those buying old CDPs. there's always the risk of getting a lemon but that could be offset if you're buying upscale wonders at P500 each and the chance of getting A-okay units (after adjustments) is at least 75%. 

[sandawa]

oh i am so dumb!!! 
Axel pointed me to his site.  for the list of 1st Gen CD players:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/DAD-main.html
and for the timeline...
http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/DAD-timeline.html
Sir Sandawa, do you have any of these early CD Players in your collection?

sir Foo, the oldest i have now is a 1982 (i think) Sony CDP-11s, which was the subject of a thread at AK yesterday. i had two units of 502ES (1984) two years ago that went to JojoD - buhay pa, and modded to sound better! i still have 555ES, 333ES, and 222ES (all 1986) working A-okay now at home. my newest Sony CDPs are X555ES and two units X333ES, which are no different in looks from 2000 ES CDP models.

i think the oldest perfectly working upscale units owned by members of this forum would be 1983 CDP-701ES of Narayan (and also James16's 501ES mentioned above) . Axel, i'm sure, would quite interested in those units.

[aHobbit]

for collection and satisfaction ...

Indeed!

For hobbyist, this is really a very satisfying indulgence. I would do the same if I do have the time. I started collecting pictures of those old consoles (those quadro thingie! - nice art, and can be tweaked or modified to your satisfaction), and scouting for a good unit  .

But is not possible for me at this time - but may try to do so later for curiousity sake - and appreciation of the art employed on those beatiful top of the line models.

The appreciation of music & sound to me will always be relegated to my simplified setup of DVD (or SACD later) & competent AV receiver - and a vintage full range speaker system. Always ready at a push of a button.

[ATJr.]

(how come, compared with others, i agree with almost all of your observations?).

maybe because i have no audio hangups! i do not subscribe to audio superstitions! and i am not easily swayed when someone peddles snake oils!

going back to topic, buying second hand cd players, we do not have the slightest idea as to how many hours tha laser head have been put into use!

i say three years of regular use for a cd player bought for about 2500 is just about a good return on investments!

[av_phile1]

Hi Sir Av_Phile1,

You're one of my idols here in this forum. I read with interest your posts in other threads. I couldn't butt in though since I don't have the technical savvy most of you guys have in the forum. I can agree with you about the inferiority of the 1st gen CDP's even without knowing much about them. I'm not collecting them though.

I have been asked by Axel of Vintage Knob to keep an eye for them and help him pick up one or two at the surplus stores. I really don't know which units belong to the generation that's why i asked the forum.  However, my 2 cents worth, I can appreciate the "covetous fever" that can afflict a collector when he tries to gather historical gems. Sir Sandawa's vision of donating his collection to UP 10 to 15 years from now is also a worthwhile effort and the result if fruitfull will outlast all of us here for generations. Samples of the 1st gen units would be invaluable parts of the collection since they would detail one of the momentous milestones in the history of audio technology.

i guess the situation is different with the vintage Sansui amps and receivers which can keep up with some of the models which came out later.

A new Ford Car will run rings around a vintage Ford Car but people collect them anyway. A friend of mine from the La Salle academe, paid a fortune for a hand cranked "gramophone" that frankly just "squeaked" out the music and he was d**n proud of that gear.

Finally, all that being said about historical value, there's probably money in them gears. Years from now their value will most probably climb up astronomically.

Ah, Ok.  Thanks Lord Foo for enlightening me on this.  Same to Sandawa.

I earlier opined my suspicion that this urge collecting surplus gears seems to be taking the better of us audiophiles.  We are starting to get a kick out of the hardware, and NOT the music.  So now I plainly realize that this collection fancy is no different from recondiioning vintage cars and other artifacts of the 20th century for their purely historical significance and future resale potential.  It seems to have little to do with the audiophilic passions.

If I had a big house with room to spare, I myself would like to showcase my hobby with, apart from rows and rows of CDs and DVDs, a little corner with some old reconditioned gears that would essay the history behind my hobby and the industry where it belongs.  They certainly would comprise a great conversation piece.  Happy collecting.

[sandawa]

i'm not sacrificing the software side though - if that's what you think. it's only logical that getting a hifi unit in condition means capability to reproduce  excellent music/recorded material expected from it. otherwise, i'd end up with junks not a hifi gear collection. that's precisely why i maintain a comparatively huge collection of vinyls and digital sources - from classical to Filipiniana, to rock, world music, and spoken words, as in original recorded masterpieces read by the authors: Robert Frost, Dylan Thomas, Ezra Pound, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, Leonard Cohen, etc. i know there are many other audio enthusiasts out there like me.

[av_phile1]

Good for you.  In the same way that CC de Castro reconditioned cars to make them road worthy, I'd imagine audio hardware collectors would also recondition their finds so they can perform like new.  Otherwise, like you said, you'd end up with junk.  So it's good to hear you also play your software on those reconditioned classics and find them satisfying.  I assume this is true for those involved in this hardware collecting hobby.  My curiosity just turned a bit when the topic on first generation CDPs cropped up.  Because unlike most vintage amps that can sound as good if not better than many modern ones,  most of these first generation CDPs are not as good as new ones.  But I can understand the impetus for getting these for purely historical value.

[sandawa]

you'd be surprised at some of these first generation CDPs. after spending roughly 5 hours tinkering and 5 hours listening, my latest 1983 model sony CDP-11s acquisition sounds not much different from the high-priced ES classics of Sony. got it yesterday afternoon and finally sang by 3 a.m. this morning. this unit was bought at an amount equivalent to 7 liters of gasoline.

i have disassembled its boards due to some problems last night and noticed the premium components, very different from the usual less than 5-kg CDPs, including new production gear. i never had listening fatigue in the first three hours of operation this morning at room-loud volume level. the next two hours, was comparatively louder - party level - since it was almost noon. after more than an hour, i felt listening was not so pleasant anymore.

of course, this is my personal appraisal of this vintage CDP and may not apply to others. as far as i know, i have tuned my room to my listening preferences and the associated equipment were more of mid-level hifi models, not TOTL. gear used were Marantz Esotec 5 and Design Acoustics PS-10 speakers. music changed from Ryan Cayabyab and SMC Chorale, Mormon Tabernacle Choir, Asin, Julia Fordham, and Dixie Chicks (Natalie Maines sings well but listening to her voice for over an hour is too much.).

[bruno]

Sir Sandawa, meron ka ba nung Sony cdp na stationary lang yung laser head nya then yung platter ang gumagalaw to position the disc sa laser?

[sandawa]

wala ako nyan sir, sana magkaron. i know some brands inlcuding Sony built limited edition esoteric models - more like prototypes - that were never produced on commercial scale.

[akyatbundok]

surplus CDP's fared very well in the 3 shootouts i attended, Narayan's Sony 701ES was one of my personal favorites regardless of age & price.

[Narayan]

surplus CDP's fared very well in the 3 shootouts i attended, Narayan's Sony 701ES was one of my personal favorites regardless of age & price.

this tank-like player needs to see a doctor at the moment though. must be beginning to show its age(1983) :'(

[wanderlust]

surplus CDP's fared very well in the 3 shootouts i attended, Narayan's Sony 701ES was one of my personal favorites regardless of age & price.

i subscribe to this... and may i just add that we also had the opportune to "compare" this surplus units to new production cdps like the rotel (1072, 971), Arcam, nad, usher, etc.

[wanderlust]

and btw, i am still using a surplus cdp which has been with me for almost a year now (victor k2).

[james16]

sakin, so far never had any problems... and very happy and satisfied with it 

sir narayan,

sana magamot nga yan 701es mo.... big brother ng cdp ko yan... i heard that to with the cdp shoot-outs before... indeed a good one..

[Lord Foo]

Mga Sirs, any comment on the entry level Sony CDPs? The 222, 227, 228 Es?

These are the ones commonly available at the pier surplus. The higher levels of Sony CDPs are much rarer and are very quickly picked up. (I've luckily picked up a 337 and a 502 - and a 337 foir a brod.

I need at least two CDPs for my kids' room. Should I wait for the mid level CDPs?  My experiece with a Victor CDP is not very good. In fact when I opened it up and compared with the SONYs, the build quality is very much higher for the SONY.

[sandawa]

puwede na yan, especially if they're cheap. nung una ayokong bumili ng ganyan since they're at the bottom of the ES series, but when i got a 222Es that plays very well, i returned in the warehouse and bought another one. i don't know how much it costs there but it should be significantly cheaper compared with the regular CDPs, kasi manipis at magaan. 

you should check, however, if they're good readers and if you want it conditioned - check the rubber belts especially the one on the motor that drives the tray out. usually may tatlong motor and CDP sa ilalim - the two others are for spinning the disc and for the optical lens assembly to move.

[shuttertrigger]

hmmmm saw some cd player surplus at pier but never asked how much.. saw Victor, kenwood and HK HCD cdp....hmmm..hmmmm..hmmm.. next hunt siguro...hmmmm..hmmmmm...

[H a n $]

Mga Sirs, any comment on the entry level Sony CDPs? The 222, 227, 228 Es?

These are the ones commonly available at the pier surplus. The higher levels of Sony CDPs are much rarer and are very quickly picked up. (I've luckily picked up a 337 and a 502 - and a 337 foir a brod.

I need at least two CDPs for my kids' room. Should I wait for the mid level CDPs?  My experiece with a Victor CDP is not very good. In fact when I opened it up and compared with the SONYs, the build quality is very much higher for the SONY.

Have owned a few models of Victor and your correct, some model di maganda yun parts BUT for the sound its definitely a must hear energetic and bouncy specially yun Victor K2 ni sir wanderlust.. as for 222, 227 , 228es ok din pero better go for the 333 up models if sound is priority.

[H a n $]

surplus CDP's fared very well in the 3 shootouts i attended, Narayan's Sony 701ES was one of my personal favorites regardless of age & price.

Chief Akyat,

After that session i never bought new production models of cd player na.. currently using surplus TEAC cdp.

[H a n $]

Guys,

Just gone to the supermarket ( Pier ) to accompany my friend and we got a Sony 501ES for P1,800. CDp prices are still at 1,800 to 2,000 range.

[bono]

Koya , as long na ikaw pumili for sure maganda yan .

[H a n $]

Koya , as long na ikaw pumili for sure maganda yan .

Sir Jimmy,

Thanks sa paniniwala kakaingit nga eh kinis pa 501ES.

[NongP]

sir ganito ba yun? ganda ah 

[H a n $]

sir ganito ba yun? ganda ah 

Ganyan sir... reads pirated CDR nicely when we tested it even lipat mo sa last track ok pa rin.