Topic: The Religion Thread

[Klaus Weasley]

And, why should the Catholic Church listen to you? Per your own logic you do not have any authority.

I'm not the only one saying it though. A lot of people are saying it including some of the more liberal priests, bishops, cardinals and nuns.

The problem of course is that most if not all the ones that get promoted and have real power in the Church hierarchy are all very conservative since the Pope only promotes those types of people. These men who get promoted usually lead very cloistered, sheltered lives and have very little idea of how the outside world sees them. Some of them barely even interact with or have any type of relationship with a woman who's not relative or a nun. That's why a lot of people are shocked and bothered by the things that they sometimes say or do because they truly have NO IDEA how bad it sounds like from an outsider. It's like the world changed around them and they either have no idea or they refuse to change with it.

You should read the article about this Italian cardinal who said in his death bed he fears for the Catholic Church because of this practice. It will not survive the 21st Century if it keeps digging its heals in the past and refusing to progress. In many ways, I think the Catholic Church has even regressed.

I know what I say is very offensive and very frightening to you since you truly believe that in order to go to heaven and see your dead loved ones again is to follow all the Church's teachings to the letter and anything that contradicts that can deprive you of a good afterlife. 

[bass_nut]

I know what I say is very offensive and very frightening to you since you truly believe that in order to go to heaven and see your dead loved ones again is to follow all the Church's teachings to the letter and anything that contradicts that can deprive you of a good afterlife. 

since you feel you are an expert, so how should it be ?
any actual experience regarding good afterlife, Klaus Weasley ?

[Klaus Weasley]

since you feel you are an expert, so how should it be ?
any actual experience regarding good afterlife, Klaus Weasley ?

We actually do not know for a fact if there is an afterlife.

Which is why we should stop worrying and try to live our lives the best we could and try not to bother with things that don't affect us directly (like the sex lives of other people). It's as simple as that.

[rascal101]

@Klaus, why do you always highlight negative stories concerning the Catholic Church? By your own admission many priests are good. Why not write about the good things the Catholic Church does?

About the story of the dying Cardinal, did it occur to you that this particular person was not completely telling the truth and was in fact lying? Maybe he felt betrayed when a position he was expecting was given to another Cardinal. I suggest you take stories with a grain of salt. Many stories are written tilting towards lies or half truths specially by people who feel betrayed or wronged.

[Klaus Weasley]

@Klaus, why do you always highlight negative stories concerning the Catholic Church? By your own admission many priests are good. Why not write about the good things the Catholic Church does?

Because the Catholic Church, particularly in the Philippines, positions themselves as the moral guardians of the people, trying to affect public policy on things like the RH Bill and legalization of divorce. They're free to express their opinions but they should not try and block things in the legislative level through threats of excommunication and political endorsements. It's DISGUSTING. That is why I say, who in God's name are they to impose their morality on everyone, even non-Catholics or even Catholics who may disagree with them? Anong paki nila sa mga mag-asawang gusto mag-condom o mag-pills while they have protected and coddled child molesting priests? 

I wouldn't be mad at them if they just kept it in the pulpit and nothing else. But they've placed themselves in the public discourse and therefore must be criticized and opposed as such. Tell the Catholic Church to trust the Filipino people and respect the separation of Church and State and let the RH Bill and divorce bill pass and I'll stop smearing their good name which isn't really necessary because they've done a good job at doing that themselves.

About the story of the dying Cardinal, did it occur to you that this particular person was not completely telling the truth and was in fact lying? Maybe he felt betrayed when a position he was expecting was given to another Cardinal. I suggest you take stories with a grain of salt. Many stories are written tilting towards lies or half truths specially by people who feel betrayed or wronged.

Why would a CARDINAL lie in his DEATH BED? I thought you LOOOOOOOVED priests and think they're sooooo perfect because they're like Jesus or something.

[frootloops]

Since afterlife was discussed...ice breaker muna ha guys...

 
Father Guido Sarducci explains what happens when you die.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=241391

[rascal101]

@Klaus, natawa naman ako sa sagot mo na ang tao hindi magsisinungaling kapag malapit na siyang mamatay. Ikaw na rin ang nagsabi, tao lang tayo at puwedeng magkamali. Sasabihin ko ito para maliwanag sa iyo ... dapat nating mahalin ang ating kapwa at ang ating Diyos. Iyung pagmamahal ko sa mga pari at sa iyo parehas lang kasi kapwa ko kayo. Ang pari ay tao na kumakatawan sa Diyos pero hindi sila Diyos. Dahil tao sila, nagkakamali sila.

Nakalimutan mo na ba ang mga salita mo na humans are flawed?

Suggest ko balikan mo mga salita mo para hindi nagagamit iyung mga sinabi mo kontra sa iyo.

@frootloops, hindi ko ma-view iyung link. Meron pa bang txt ito? Dami kasing bina block dito sa China eh.

[Nelson de Leon]

Since afterlife was discussed...ice breaker muna ha guys...

 
Father Guido Sarducci explains what happens when you die.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=241391

$0.35. Haha!

[Klaus Weasley]

@Klaus, natawa naman ako sa sagot mo na ang tao hindi magsisinungaling kapag malapit na siyang mamatay.

What motivation would he have for lying? I mean, he's on his death bed. It doesn't make any sense. Anyway, what he said can't be construed as a "lie", perhaps an observation or an opinion. It can only be a lie if he doesn't really feel that way and he's just saying it to appeal to a group of people.

Ang pari ay tao na kumakatawan sa Diyos pero hindi sila Diyos. Dahil tao sila, nagkakamali sila.

Nakalimutan mo na ba ang mga salita mo na humans are flawed?

Oo nga. That's why I'm telling YOU that they are not above criticism. When it comes to your moral and spiritual life, you shouldn't let a priest dictate how you should live and how you should think. Ang problema sa ibang tao, wala na silang critical thinking skills. Sunod na lang sunod sa pari parang mga bobong tupa. It's fine to ask for their advice but try and read other lines of thinking, try and consult with other people even look at other religions and try and make up your own mind. Hindi palaging tama si Father.

[rascal101]

His motivation? Ambition. An ambition he is willing to take to his grave.

Yes you are right. You do not rely on one priest alone. This is the same as with Doctors. You get a second opinion from another Doctor or priest.

Not all people are created equal hence some people are likely to simply follow in verbatim. There is such a thing as common sense. If it does not make any sense then do not follow. If someone asks you to drink poison, will you?

However, some of your arguments are quite contradictory specially with regards to authority. The priests (even though they commit sin) have the moral obligation and authority to tell you what you need to heed with regards to morality. Surely a formal degree in religion just like a formal degree in engineering or medicine gives them authority on this matter.

The obvious question then becomes what authority regarding morality based on the bible can you argue to supersede the position of the Catholic Church? You need to logically justify your position based on the bible to ensure that your arguments are foolproof. Otherwise as I have stated earlier, you are bearing false witness against thy neighbor.

[Klaus Weasley]

There is such a thing as common sense. If it does not make any sense then do not follow. If someone asks you to drink poison, will you?

Absolutely. But my question to you is: Does this apply if the Catholic Church's teachings for you doesn't make any sense? Am I not allowed to disagree with the priests? Am I not allowed to criticize the Church for what I see is nonsense teachings? For me, it doesn't make ANY sense for the Church to forbid condoms and gay marriage, am I permitted to reject those teachings?

However, some of your arguments are quite contradictory specially with regards to authority. The priests (even though they commit sin) have the moral obligation and authority to tell you what you need to heed with regards to morality. Surely a formal degree in religion just like a formal degree in engineering or medicine gives them authority on this matter.

That's fine. But tell them to keep it within their church and the pulpit. Don't make their religious teachings into public policy. It's a violation of the separation of Church and State.

The obvious question then becomes what authority regarding morality based on the bible can you argue to supersede the position of the Catholic Church? You need to logically justify your position based on the bible to ensure that your arguments are foolproof. Otherwise as I have stated earlier, you are bearing false witness against thy neighbor.

Why should morality be only based on the Bible? Have you read the Bible? It's filled with a lot of rules and laws that we do not follow as a society. We do not yell "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!" to women who have their periods. We do not stone to death people who work in the Sabbath day. There are also lots of other religious books out there: The Koran, the teachings of Buddha, Dianetics, the Book of Mormon, etc. For me, they are pretty much all the same. For me, it is foolish and ridiculous to have to rely on one book to dictate your morality and even MORE foolish and MORE ridiculous to have to impose that morality onto other people who may or may not share your views.

I personally started having doubts about the Bible as the infallible word of God and of organized religion in general when I started actually reading the Bible because some of what they say does not make sense to me.

[rascal101]

An employee bows to his superiors. A member follows his leader. A child obeys his parents. Since you are a member of he Catholic Church you are compelled to obey.

If understanding the bible was so easy becoming a priest would end up just like a 5 day seminar. The fact that it takes several years of schooling means it is not as easy to interpret. Why do have to go the Church every Sunday to hear the word of God? Why do we need to interact with priests? Isn't it because we want to learn about the Bible and so that there is an answer to our questions. One simply cannot understand the Bible on his own. There are ways to learn more about the Bible and God eg retreats etc. You can participate in these.

You can disagree with priests the same way you can commit sin if you want to. This is the same as with children questioning or disagreeing with their parents. However, you will need to obey as you have no authority. You need to gain some authority for your superiors to listen to you eg good and logical argumentation skills.

[Nelson de Leon]

An employee bows to his superiors. A member follows his leader. A child obeys his parents. Since you are a member of he Catholic Church you are compelled to obey.

If understanding the bible was so easy becoming a priest would end up just like a 5 day seminar. The fact that it takes several years of schooling means it is not as easy to interpret. Why do have to go the Church every Sunday to hear the word of God? Why do we need to interact with priests? Isn't it because we want to learn about the Bible and so that there is an answer to our questions. One simply cannot understand the Bible on his own. There are ways to learn more about the Bible and God eg retreats etc. You can participate in these.

You can disagree with priests the same way you can commit sin if you want to. This is the same as with children questioning or disagreeing with their parents. However, you will need to obey as you have no authority. You need to gain some authority for your superiors to listen to you eg good and logical argumentation skills.

1. However, some of your arguments are quite contradictory specially with regards to authority. The priests (even though they commit sin) have the moral obligation and authority to tell you what you need to heed with regards to morality. Surely a formal degree in religion just like a formal degree in engineering or medicine gives them authority on this matter.

2. The obvious question then becomes what authority regarding morality based on the bible can you argue to supersede the position of the Catholic Church? You need to logically justify your position based on the bible to ensure that your arguments are foolproof. Otherwise as I have stated earlier, you are bearing false witness against thy neighbor.

1. With regards to authority, sa church kasi namin, hindi masyadong implied ang authority over the other. Pero may moral obligation between each other as an accountability partner. Ultimate authority kasi comes from God and his Words are perfectly written in the Bible.

2. Marami din sir biblical verses that can supercede the position of the Catholic Church. 

Absolutely. But my question to you is: Does this apply if the Catholic Church's teachings for you doesn't make any sense? Am I not allowed to disagree with the priests? Am I not allowed to criticize the Church for what I see is nonsense teachings? For me, it doesn't make ANY sense for the Church to forbid condoms and gay marriage, am I permitted to reject those teachings?

It is your prerogative naman.

That's fine. But tell them to keep it within their church and the pulpit. Don't make their religious teachings into public policy. It's a violation of the separation of Church and State.

Why should morality be only based on the Bible? Have you read the Bible? It's filled with a lot of rules and laws that we do not follow as a society. We do not yell "UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!" to women who have their periods. We do not stone to death people who work in the Sabbath day. There are also lots of other religious books out there: The Koran, the teachings of Buddha, Dianetics, the Book of Mormon, etc. For me, they are pretty much all the same. For me, it is foolish and ridiculous to have to rely on one book to dictate your morality and even MORE foolish and MORE ridiculous to have to impose that morality onto other people who may or may not share your views.

You are correct. Pero sometimes, as part of evangelism, it is also correct to share the Word of God. pero never to convict that person of his wrongdoings.

I personally started having doubts about the Bible as the infallible word of God and of organized religion in general when I started actually reading the Bible because some of what they say does not make sense to me.

Then may i personally invite you the study the Bible with me, as i am also in the process of growing.

An employee bows to his superiors. A member follows his leader. A child obeys his parents. Since you are a member of he Catholic Church you are compelled to obey.

You can disagree with priests the same way you can commit sin if you want to. This is the same as with children questioning or disagreeing with their parents. However, you will need to obey as you have no authority. You need to gain some authority for your superiors to listen to you eg good and logical argumentation skills.

Obeying is good. Pero hindi masmaganda kung instead of being compelled to obey (as if napipilitan lang), you obey because of your love for God.

[Klaus Weasley]

An employee bows to his superiors. A member follows his leader. A child obeys his parents. Since you are a member of he Catholic Church you are compelled to obey.

You can criticize your boss when he's wrong. It's also said that the best leader listens to his subordinates. I've heard all the priests' arguments against the things that I'm saying about contraception, abortion, gay marriage, etc. NONE OF THEM make a lick of sense to me.

As I said, it would be FINE if they remain that way as long as it remains in the church pulpit. They should NOT HAVE ANY AUTHORITY in government especially in a DEMOCRATIC, SECULAR government.

If understanding the bible was so easy becoming a priest would end up just like a 5 day seminar. The fact that it takes several years of schooling means it is not as easy to interpret. Why do have to go the Church every Sunday to hear the word of God? Why do we need to interact with priests? Isn't it because we want to learn about the Bible and so that there is an answer to our questions. One simply cannot understand the Bible on his own. There are ways to learn more about the Bible and God eg retreats etc. You can participate in these.

I grew up in Catholic school. I went to retreats and recollections. I still go to Mass every Sundays and holidays (mostly out of obligation). I took religious classes in college as well. I also read the Bible.

You can disagree with priests the same way you can commit sin if you want to. This is the same as with children questioning or disagreeing with their parents. However, you will need to obey as you have no authority. You need to gain some authority for your superiors to listen to you eg good and logical argumentation skills.

Sometimes parents can be wrong. Sometimes the boss can be wrong. Sometimes even the CHURCH can be wrong. Can you at least admit that sometimes priests can be wrong?

No offense but Bible study is my idea of torture. People who go to that types of things might as well be on a different planet than I am.

[rascal101]

You can criticize your boss when he's wrong. It's also said that the best leader listens to his subordinates. I've heard all the priests' arguments against the things that I'm saying about contraception, abortion, gay marriage, etc. NONE OF THEM make a lick of sense to me.

>> Do your own arguments make sense to you? Even in these thread your arguments are contradictory.

>> There is a position of the Catholic Church regarding Abortion. Outside of that it is Murder. Are you saying you are advocating beyond the position of the Catholic Church?

As I said, it would be FINE if they remain that way as long as it remains in the church pulpit. They should NOT HAVE ANY AUTHORITY in government especially in a DEMOCRATIC, SECULAR government.

>> Priests are citizens. As citizens they can participate in the government.

I grew up in Catholic school. I went to retreats and recollections. I still go to Mass every Sundays and holidays (mostly out of obligation). I took religious classes in college as well. I also read the Bible.

>> All these are good.

Sometimes parents can be wrong. Sometimes the boss can be wrong. Sometimes even the CHURCH can be wrong. Can you at least admit that sometimes priests can be wrong?

>> I have mentioned many times that people can be wrong. In that sense, priests can be wrong. Also in that sense, you can be wrong.

No offense but Bible study is my idea of torture. People who go to that types of things might as well be on a different planet than I am.

>> Patience is a virtue ... Whoever said studying is easy. Try studying Mandarin like the Chinese. They have to memorize so many characters (there are at least 39,000) and learn to write them properly. They have to memorize the 4 tones of pronunciation and have to memorize the different meanings of the same word pronounced identically! Even with these obstacles more people speak Mandarin compared to English. Why is that?

[Nelson de Leon]

Try studying Mandarin like the Chinese. They have to memorize so many characters (there are at least 39,000) and learn to write them properly. They have to memorize the 4 tones of pronunciation and have to memorize the different meanings of the same word pronounced identically! Even with these obstacles more people speak Mandarin compared to English. Why is that?

Because nasa China ka sir...?   

[rascal101]

Nasa China nga ako pero base sa statistics sa mundo mas marami daw talaga nagsasalita ng Mandarin kumpara sa Ingles. Matindi magpalaganap ng lahi kasi mga intsik ... hehehe

Sumasakit na ang ulo ko sa pag-aaral. Araw araw na nga at mahigit isang taon pero hirap na hirap pa rin ako makipag-usap.

[Klaus Weasley]

>> Do your own arguments make sense to you? Even in these thread your arguments are contradictory.

Could you point out which one of my arguments are contradictory? Maybe I could clarify them.

>> There is a position of the Catholic Church regarding Abortion. Outside of that it is Murder. Are you saying you are advocating beyond the position of the Catholic Church?

I actually DISAGREE with the Catholic Church with regards to abortion = murder. The whole concept of life beginning in conception kind of ridiculous since fertilized eggs are "aborted" all the time by women's bodies. So all sexually active women who have heavier-than-usual periods are potentially "aborting" their babies if the Catholic Church were to be followed.

If you disagree with me on this, fine. But why don't the Catholic Church support contraception? Wouldn't contraception lead to women not having to abort unwanted pregnancies? Because the Catholic Church is anti-sex and anti-woman. That's why they're opposed to contraception!

>> Priests are citizens. As citizens they can participate in the government.

They're free to vote and publicly express their opinions. But they cannot bully the government into bowing to their whims when it comes to public policy which is what the CBCP is doing. I'm happy the Filipino Freethinkers and Gabriela are fighting back, putting them on the defensive which is what we need because they've been special treatment by the government for way too long.

>> I have mentioned many times that people can be wrong. In that sense, priests can be wrong. Also in that sense, you can be wrong.

Yes, I could be wrong. But PERSONALLY, if I am wrong and the conservative Christians and Catholics are right then I do not want to worship or be with the God that they believe in because their God is a tyrannical, judgemental, misogynist, homophobic, anti-intellectual, narrow-minded, condescending, vain, egotistical, patronizing, corrupt, unjust, murderous, sociopathic God.

I personally would rather burn in Hell than worship their God (and apparently, your God too). So I *hope* that I'm right.

>> Patience is a virtue ... Whoever said studying is easy.

Studying is not easy but life's way too short to try and make sense of a 2,000 year old book that's been translated and interpreted by so many people throughout the centuries and put together arbitrarily by a group of old men. I've read it. I've learned about its history. And that's that.

The torture is not in the reading but it's in the people involved. I've come across these people, I know a few of them. They do not speak the same language as I do. LOL.

I do believe in a God and in a Creator. I believe in Jesus' teachings but I am NOT, I repeat, NOT religious. For me, organized religion, apart from cultural traditions, is really mostly irrelevant in my life right now. No, I do not feel empty or unhappy or misguided because of it.

[rascal101]

Could you point out which one of my arguments are contradictory? Maybe I could clarify them.

>> You said because priests sin they are bereft of moral authority ...
Hence as I have told you, since you also sin you are also bereft of authority. As such, you have no authority to claim or ask of anything from the Catholic Church. However, you make pleas for the Catholic Church to reverse its stand.

I actually DISAGREE with the Catholic Church with regards to abortion = murder. The whole concept of life beginning in conception kind of ridiculous since fertilized eggs are "aborted" all the time by women's bodies. So all sexually active women who have heavier-than-usual periods are potentially "aborting" their babies if the Catholic Church were to be followed.

>> Do you understand the word "intent"?

If you disagree with me on this, fine. But why don't the Catholic Church support contraception?
Wouldn't contraception lead to women not having to abort unwanted pregnancies? Because the Catholic Church is anti-sex and anti-woman. That's why they're opposed to contraception!

>> Anti-sex, anti-women ... I don't know why someone who studied in a Catholic school can say this?
Contraception ... say that again please with better arguments this time.

They're free to vote and publicly express their opinions. But they cannot bully the government into bowing to their whims when it comes to public policy which is what the CBCP is doing. I'm happy the Filipino Freethinkers and Gabriela are fighting back, putting them on the defensive which is what we need because they've been special treatment by the government for way too long.

>> When a 3 year old child tells you he can knock you down with one punch, is that threatening? When North Korea says it will bring down South Korea, is this threatening?

Yes, I could be wrong. But PERSONALLY, if I am wrong and the conservative Christians and Catholics are right then I do not want to worship or be with the God that they believe in because their God is a tyrannical, judgemental, misogynist, homophobic, anti-intellectual, narrow-minded, condescending, vain, egotistical, patronizing, corrupt, unjust, murderous, sociopathic God.

>> Now this is threatening ... anger/hatred with possibility of further action at those not in agreement with you? Now I question how you passed religion classes? Oh ... I forgot ... I did mention forgiveness is not part of your vocabulary ...

I personally would rather burn in Hell than worship their God (and apparently, your God too). So I *hope* that I'm right.

>> By this you already acknowledge you are not in the right.

Studying is not easy but life's way too short to try and make sense of a 2,000 year old book that's been translated and interpreted by so many people throughout the centuries and put together arbitrarily by a group of old men. I've read it. I've learned about its history. And that's that.

>> So I see. You read the Bible.

The torture is not in the reading but it's in the people involved. I've come across these people, I know a few of them. They do not speak the same language as I do. LOL.

>> Maybe you were speaking Chinese.

I do believe in a God and in a Creator. I believe in Jesus' teachings but I am NOT, I repeat, NOT religious. For me, organized religion, apart from cultural traditions, is really mostly irrelevant in my life right now. No, I do not feel empty or unhappy or misguided because of it.

>> To practice Humility is good.

[A patch of blue]

I myself have grown-up in a Catholic school, have been attending mass every Sunday, gone to recollections, and tried reading the Bible. And like many people, I find myself thinking that many things in the Bible or about the Christian doctrine doesn't make any sense. Again like many people, I feel I am intelligent enough to discern things for myself. And I don't feel priests or bishops are perfect.

Because I enrolled my sons in a Catholic institution, and because they are still in Grade 4, I am obligated to tutor them in Christian Living. Along the course of reviewing them, I came to realize something -- I may 'believe' that there is God, in Jesus, or in Jesus' teachings, but I have no faith. Faith is one of the 3 theological virtues of Christian moral living, the other 2 being hope and charity.

A child should follow his parents, even if it is against his perceived better judgement, because he believes that in the final analysis the parents know best. Believing against your perceived better judgement is faith. Faith is believing something you do not understand, or something that doesn't make sense. However, this may be very difficult for people like me who are, maybe, self-righteous and try to make sense of everything. Of course parents can be wrong, and priests and bishops can be wrong, because they are not perfect, no one is.

[shrek7]

Wow! Its really hot in here!!! Been lurking in this thread for quite sometime, im amazed mr klaus weasley, you are very brave to speak words mostly againsts the catholic church. I really admire the way you reason,   

[Klaus Weasley]

>> You said because priests sin they are bereft of moral authority ...
Hence as I have told you, since you also sin you are also bereft of authority. As such, you have no authority to claim or ask of anything from the Catholic Church. However, you make pleas for the Catholic Church to reverse its stand.

The Catholic Church has done far greater sins than simply giving out condoms to poor people who want it. Like the covering up of child molesters for one. The Catholic Church has yet to completely atone for it. They're still trying to sweep things under the rug and trying to minimize their responsibility towards these crimes. New scandals are being uncovered every year! I have sinned, sure. But none of my sins are nowhere near as bad as the Church's. Before they can tell us what to do with our bodies, they should rid and atone themselves of these wrong-doings. They have not!

Personally, I couldn't care less what the Catholic Church does. However, if they want to be relevant in the coming century and the centuries to come, they HAVE to change their stances eventually. That is a fact. Gay marriage is becoming more and more accept amongst young people. More and more Christian denominations are more accepting of gay rights. That's just one issue they HAVE to reverse their stand on. And they will eventually, perhaps within our lifetime.

>> Anti-sex, anti-women ... I don't know why someone who studied in a Catholic school can say this?

Simple. I read other things apart from the Bible and I have a critical mind and an open mind.

>> To practice Humility is good.

I agree. It's something that I could throw back to you, quite frankly. What is more humble? Acknowledging that you do not have all the answers, that you really don't know the meaning of it all or arrogantly knowing that if you do this and that and you believe this and that, that some omnipotent being will reward you with heavenly riches?

For me, I am HUMBLED by the fact that I do not have all the answers, that the universe is vast, infinite and we only know about a infinitesimally small portion of it. I do not claim to know God or to know what God wants of us. I acknowledge that you could be right. But Muslims could be right. Jews could also be right. Hindus could also be right. Protestants could also be right. I could be wrong. (My logic says otherwise but I see no hard evidence to contradict me). The only thing that I *do* know for a fact is that we're here, there are lots of wonderful things in this world. It may not be perfect. It may not always be fair. Life's too short to be narrow-minded and see sin everywhere. We need to make the world a better place for humanity. End of story. 

[bass_nut]

my faith in GOD is NEVER lessened by any of these alleged wrong doings of some priests. actually, these negative allegations bring me closer to HIM.

i am human.. a servant.. a sinner struggling to follow HIS WORDS and examples. hence, i will not and will NEVER believe to be better than HIM.

[rascal101]

But none of my sins are nowhere near as bad as the Church's. Before they can tell us what to do with our bodies, they should rid and atone themselves of these wrong-doings. They have not!

Simple. I read other things apart from the Bible and I have a critical mind and an open mind.

For me, I am HUMBLED by the fact that I do not have all the answers, that the universe is vast, infinite and we only know about a infinitesimally small portion of it. I do not claim to know God or to know what God wants of us. I acknowledge that you could be right. But Muslims could be right. Jews could also be right. Hindus could also be right. Protestants could also be right. I could be wrong. (My logic says otherwise but I see no hard evidence to contradict me). The only thing that I *do* know for a fact is that we're here, there are lots of wonderful things in this world. It may not be perfect. It may not always be fair. Life's too short to be narrow-minded and see sin everywhere. We need to make the world a better place for humanity. End of story.

>> I will repeat ... humility is good.

[rascal101]

my faith in GOD is NEVER lessened by any of these alleged wrong doings of some priests. actually, these negative allegations bring me closer to HIM.

i am human.. a servant.. a sinner struggling to follow HIS WORDS and examples. hence, i will not and will NEVER believe to be better than HIM.

+1M

[rascal101]

A child should follow his parents, even if it is against his perceived better judgement, because he believes that in the final analysis the parents know best. Believing against your perceived better judgement is faith. Faith is believing something you do not understand, or something that doesn't make sense. However, this may be very difficult for people like me who are, maybe, self-righteous and try to make sense of everything. Of course parents can be wrong, and priests and bishops can be wrong, because they are not perfect, no one is.

I like many struggle with faith everyday. However I sincerely believe he will help us overcome obstacles if we do our part.

[A patch of blue]

If you think that you are that highly-analytical, intellectual, and need to use your perceived logic in matters of belief in God (in the words of some this is called self-righteousness) then you may be better off on your own not having any religion.

God asking Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a burnt sacrifice to Him does not make sense (to Abraham), yet he obeyed because of faith.

You will never have faith if you are self-righteous. But nobody can judge you, even if you are.

[Klaus Weasley]

God asking Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a burnt sacrifice to Him does not make sense (to Abraham), yet he obeyed because of faith.

I'll let Louis C.K. explain this for me.

[A patch of blue]

I'll let Louis C.K. explain this for me.

This, is what I meant. 
At least he's got faith in Lucky Louie, hehe

[Nelson de Leon]

Question:
1. Paano nagiging saint sa RC?
2. bakit sila Moses and yun mga nasa OT hindi naging saint?