Topic: The Religion Thread

[panzimus]

I just really can't comprehend na alam ng isang tao na kasama na sya sa Book of Life at mapupunta sa langit habang siya ay buhay pa. Unless kausapin ka mismo ni God (at kung mapapatunayan mo na si God nga siya at hindi the Devil himself just in disguise) at sabihin na "pTrader, ang panagalan mo ay nakasulat na sa Libro ng Buhay at ikaw ay mapupunta sa Langit." Paano ang final judgement?

[pTrader]

I just really can't comprehend na alam ng isang tao na kasama na sya sa Book of Life at mapupunta sa langit habang siya ay buhay pa. Unless kausapin ka mismo ni God (at kung mapapatunayan mo na si God nga siya at hindi the Devil himself just in disguise) at sabihin na "pTrader, ang panagalan mo ay nakasulat na sa Libro ng Buhay at ikaw ay mapupunta sa Langit." Paano ang final judgement?

phil 4:3Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

yan verse na iyan, buhay pa sila pero alam na.

Inde nagbabago ang Dios even if sa panahon ngayon. Kung paano siya nangusap sa panahon ni Pablo ganun din ngayon.

[panzimus]

phil 4:3Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

yan verse na iyan, buhay pa sila pero alam na.

Inde nagbabago ang Dios even if sa panahon ngayon. Kung paano siya nangusap sa panahon ni Pablo ganun din ngayon.

and you are righteous just like them? how did you know nga sir na nakasulat na nga nag name mo, as in yung ikaw, sa book of life? mabubura pa ba name mo dun? curious talaga ako.

[barrister]

Inde "Buti ka pa sir...", naawa  ang Dios sa akin  at sa lahat ng hinirang Niya.

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Hindi ikaw ang kausap sa sitas na yan sir.

Ang kausap, mga Jewish Christians who are sojourners and exiles of the dispersion.

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. (1 Peter 2:9-12)

The Israelites are the chosen race, and their race was based on bloodline.

The royal priesthood, the holy nation, and the people for His own possession refer to the people of Israel, the Jewish nation. Hindi kasama ang Pilipino doon. 

That's why the Old Testament said:

On the third new moon after the people of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that day they came into the wilderness of Sinai. 2 They set out from Rephidim and came into the wilderness of Sinai, and they encamped in the wilderness. There Israel encamped before the mountain, 3 while Moses went up to God. The Lord called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel: 4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.” (Exo. 9:1-6)

In the above-quoted 1 Peter 2:12, the Jews are advised to keep their conduct among the Gentiles honorable, because they are not Gentiles, they are Jews.

In the above-quoted 1 Peter 2:11, the Jews  are called sojourners and exiles because they are in exile and sojourning in various Roman provinces.

That is why Peter's letter starts this way:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia (1 Peter 1:1)
 
Hindi ka kasama diyan sir.  You are not a Jewish Christian exile of the dispersion living in the various provinces of ancient Rome.

Mahilig ka lang mang-angkin ng hindi sa iyo.

[barrister]

kung pano siya nangusap kay Zacchaeus, ganun di  sa  mga taong  sinagip niya.

And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham.

kung  sinagip ka Niya kagaya ni Zacchaeus,  ganun din malalaman  mong isa ikaw sa tapagmana sa pamamagitan ng Dios.

...  Today salvation has come to this house.
 
Zacchaeus repented of his sins.  Jesus said to him, 'Today salvation has come to this house..."
 
When did salvation come to this house?  Today.  Not before the foundation of the world.  It came today.

Why today?  Because Zacchaeus repented today.  That's free will, not predestination.

Sinagip si Zacchaeus, hindi ikaw.

Paanong nalaman ni Zacchaeus?  Kasi sinabi ni Kristo.

Si Zacchaeus ba mismo ang nagsabi na ligtas ang sarili niya?  Hindi.  Si Kristo ang nagsabi.

Ikaw naman sir, sino ang nagsabi na ang pangalan mo ay nasa Book of Life?  Si Kristo, o ikaw lang mismo?

[barrister]

phil 4:3Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

yan verse na iyan, buhay pa sila pero alam na.

Did the women, Clement and the rest of the fellow workers themselves say that their own names were in the Book of Life?  No, it was Paul who said that, not the workers themselves.

How did Paul know?  Because it was revealed to Paul, who is an apostle to the Gentiles.

Even if the workers' names were written in the Book of Life at the time, not even Paul had knowledge of whether or not their names will be blotted out from the Book of Life in the end.

In your case, was it Paul the apostle who said your name is written in the Book of Life?

No, it was you yourself who made that claim.

According to your belief, your name has been written in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world, and it will be impossible for your name to be ever blotted out from it.

[pTrader]

and you are righteous just like them? how did you know nga sir na nakasulat na nga nag name mo, as in yung ikaw, sa book of life? mabubura pa ba name mo dun? curious talaga ako.

Dahil sa  awa  at  habag ng Dios at sa pamamagitan  ni Cristo ako ay naligtas.
Ang mensahe sa mga  manampalataya ay ganito:

John 3:16“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”


Rom 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a 2For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death

Rom  8:14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sonsf of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

[pTrader]

Sinagip si Zacchaeus, hindi ikaw.

Paanong nalaman ni Zacchaeus?  Kasi sinabi ni Kristo.

Si Zacchaeus ba mismo ang nagsabi na ligtas ang sarili niya?  Hindi.  Si Kristo ang nagsabi.

Ikaw naman sir, sino ang nagsabi na ang pangalan mo ay nasa Book of Life?  Si Kristo, o ikaw lang mismo?

Rom  8:14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sonsf of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.


16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

can such belief determine that his name is written in the  book of life? No.

An this is  the answer:  The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

[panzimus]

But sir pTrader, those verses still doesn't confirm if you are indeed in the Book of Life. Kailan naisulat ang pangalan mi dun at sino ang nagsabi na andun ang pangalan mo?

[Hammerheart]

[pTrader]

But sir pTrader, those verses still doesn't confirm if you are indeed in the Book of Life. Kailan naisulat ang pangalan mi dun at sino ang nagsabi na andun ang pangalan mo?

magandang tanong, na tinanong ko rin sa sarili ko nung una


John 3:

16“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


Romans 8:9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.


Rev20:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.

12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



Rev 20:
11At nakita ko ang isang malaking luklukang maputi, at ang nakaluklok doon, na sa kaniyang harapan, ang lupa at ang langit ay tumakas; at walang nasumpungang kalalagyan nila.

 12At nakita ko ang mga patay, malalaki at maliliit, na nangakatayo sa harapan ng luklukan; at nangabuksan ang mga aklat: at nabuksan ang ibang aklat, na siyang aklat ng buhay: at ang mga patay ay hinatulan ayon sa mga bagay na nasusulat sa mga aklat, ayon sa kanilang mga gawa.

13At ibinigay ng dagat ang mga patay na nasa kaniya; at ibinigay ng kamatayan at ng Hades ang mga patay na nasa kanila: at sila'y hinatulan bawa't tao ayon sa kanikaniyang mga gawa.

14At ang kamatayan at ang Hades ay ibinulid sa dagatdagatang apoy. Ito ang ikalawang kamatayan, sa makatuwid ay ang dagatdagatang apoy.

15At kung ang sinoman ay hindi nasumpungang nakasulat sa aklat ng buhay, ay ibinulid sa dagatdagatang apoy.


Rom 8:1Ngayon nga'y wala nang anomang hatol sa mga na kay Cristo Jesus. 2Sapagka't ang kautusan ng Espiritu ng buhay na kay Cristo Jesus ay pinalaya ako sa kautusan ng kasalanan at ng kamatayan.

Kung ako ay isang nanampalataya kay Cristo at pinalaya na ako sa kautusan ng kasalanan at ng kamatayan (Ngayon nga'y wala nang anomang hatol sa mga na kay Cristo Jesus), mararanasan ko pa ba ang hatol ng kamatayan sa sinabi sa aklat Pahayag?

Ito ang nagpapatunay sa lahat ng manampalataya na tunay nga na yung pangalan nila ay nakasulat sa Aklat ng Buhay.

Kinalaro ng Panginoong Jesus na ang sinomang sa kaniya'y sumampalataya ay huwag mapahamak, kundi magkaroon ng buhay na walang hanggan na ang  sumasampalataya sa kaniya ay hindi hinahatulan.

At pina-ulit muli kay Pablo na nag sabi na: Ngayon nga'y wala nang anomang hatol sa mga na kay Cristo Jesus. Sapagka't ang kautusan ng Espiritu ng buhay na kay Cristo Jesus ay pinalaya ako sa kautusan ng kasalanan at ng kamatayan.

[barrister]

Did you make an effort to confirm if this Rob Zombie quote is genuine or fake before posting?

[dpogs]

@ ptrader: barrister doesnt believe on eternal security of sons of God. Based on his posts i think he believes on losing salvation. The sort of you need to keep your status of being son of God by following God's commandment or by doing good works.

Correct me sir barrister if i got it wrong.

[barrister]

Tama yon sir.

During your lifetime, you can receive salvation, but you can also lose it during your lifetime.

Malinaw naman yata kay sir pTrader ang kaibahan ng beliefs namin.  Tapos na yata kami, parang hindi na talaga puwedeng ma-reconclie ang kaibahan.

[pTrader]

Tama yon sir.

During your lifetime, you can receive salvation, but you can also lose it during your lifetime.

Malinaw naman yata kay sir pTrader ang kaibahan ng beliefs namin.  Tapos na yata kami, parang hindi na talaga puwedeng ma-reconclie ang kaibahan.

Malinaw sir at nahubog ako sa ganyan paniniwala before. 

[bumblebee]

Kawawa naman yung mabait na wala sa book of life at swerte nung loko loko na andun

If predestination is true, then what's the point of preaching and practicing? Is your God giving false hope?

[Timithekid]

During your lifetime, you can receive salvation, but you can also lose it during your lifetime.

I'm a firm believer of this, I cannot fathom the concept of being born and not being in the book of life due to predestination and yet some jerk out there gets to have his cake and eat it too.

[dpogs]

I'm a firm believer of this, I cannot fathom the concept of being born and not being in the book of life due to predestination and yet some jerk out there gets to have his cake and eat it too.

Ever since namulat tayo dito sa mundo naturuan na tayo ng ating mga magulang/pari/etc ng ganito:

- "Huwag kang gagawa ng masama pupunta ka sa impiyerno, gumawa ka ng mabuti para di ka mapunta sa impiyerno."
- "Papunta ka ba ng langit? Napaka righteous mo naman at nasabi mo na papunta ka ng langit."
- "Walang nakakaaalam kung sino pupunta ng impiyerno at kung sino pupunta ng langit, Diyos lang ang nakakaalam niya."

Eto ang mga turong nakamulatan na natin. Some religion use this para hawak nila sa leeg mga member nila. 
Ngunit kung susuriin natin ang Bibiliya, ikaw mismo malalaman mo na pupunta ka sa langit.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I John 5:13 KJV

going to heaven is not a matter of how righteous we are here in earth, we are born naturally as sinner. Unless we are born again in spirit God will never recognize our rigteousness here in earth.


2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:2-6

The law of nature is that we are born once physically from the womb of our mother. No man was born physically twice. The same law applies pagdating sa pagiging born again in spirit. you can only be born spiritually once. if its a losing salvation, you need to be born again and again and again and again.

Once you were born again in Christ, you will be a new creature. from being son of Adam (unrighteous before God) to being son of God (righteous before God).

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. II Cor. 5:17-21

[barrister]

Ngunit kung susuriin natin ang Bibiliya, ikaw mismo malalaman mo na pupunta ka sa langit.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I John 5:13 KJV

If you believe in the name of the Son of God, you know that you have eternal life.

You have the promise of eternal life now, but that does not mean that you will never lose eternal life.  It means you have salvation now, if you die now.  It is not a guarantee that you will never lose your salvation no matter what you do in the future.

What does believing in the name of Jesus Christ mean? 

A name refers to authority.  If a policeman arrests you in the name of the law, it means he arrests you under the authority of the law.

If you believe in the name of Jesus Christ, it means you submit yourself to the authority of Jesus Christ.

Let's look at your cited verse again, but this time, starting from verse 12:

12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.  (1 John 5:12-13)

We say you believe in the name of the Son if you have the Son in you.  The Son is in you if you submit yourself to His authority by keeping His commands.  That is why John says in chapter 2:

3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. (1 John 2:3-6)

Therefore, believing in Christ means keeping the commands of Christ.  You have salvation if you follow His commands.  But you must continue following His commands, otherwise you will lose your salvation.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:1-5)

If you believe in the name of Christ, you submit to His authority.  If you submit to His authority, you follow his commands.  If you follow His commands, you have salvation and you are a branch of the true vine. 

But being a branch of the true vine has a condition --- you must remain in the vine.  If you do not continue keeping His commands, you do not remain in the vine, you are cut off and thrown away into the fire.

You do not have salvation forever. Fail to keep His commands and you will lose that salvation.  You are cut off and thrown away.  In the end, you will be thrown into the fire.

Hindi mahirap intindihin yan.  Pinapahirap mo lang...

[barrister]

The law of nature is that we are born once physically from the womb of our mother. No man was born physically twice. The same law applies pagdating sa pagiging born again in spirit. you can only be born spiritually once. if its a losing salvation, you need to be born again and again and again and again.

It's true that physical birth is only once, and spiritual birth is only once. 

However, just because you are spiritually reborn, it does not mean you will never spiritually die.  In the same manner, just because you were physically born, it does not mean you will never physically die.

Even if you were once saved, once you sin unto death, you can no longer be born again.  In fact, the bible says that you should not pray for a brother or sister who sinned unto death:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16-17)

John calls them brother or sister because they were born again, and they became brothers and sisters in the faith, not literal brothers and sisters.
 
After they were born again, they can lose their salvation if they sin unto death.  Once they lose their salvation, they can no longer be born again, since being born again can only happen once. 

That is why John says pray only for those brethren who sin not unto death; do not pray for those brethren who sin unto death because it will be useless.  They cannot have a second spiritual rebirth.

Therefore, while it is true that you can only be born again once, it is not true that salvation cannot be lost. 

That is why the bible says:

20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Peter 2:20-22)

They have escaped the corruption of the world.  They were washed.  The sacred command was passed on to them.  They were no longer entangled in the corruption of the world.  It means they were previously born again.   They were saved.  Yet they lost their salvation.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.  (Heb. 6:4-6)

Note how these people are described:

- once enlightened
- tasted the heavenly gift
- shared in the Holy Spirit
- tasted the goodness of the word of God
- tasted the powers of the coming age

Of course these people were born again.  These are not newly born again persons, they are mature Christians who were even commanded to "move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ" (Heb. 6:1).

Yet the verses explain that if they fall away, it will be impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.

Why? Because they were once born again, and they once received salvation, but they fell away and sinned unto death.

Now that they have lost their salvation, repentance is now useless because they can no longer be forgiven. They can't be born again for the 2nd time.  Do not pray for them, said John.

That is why Revelation says:

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still (Rev. 22:11)

What do we do with those who have lost their salvation?  Leave them.  Let them continue in their wickedness. 

Walang "born again and again and again" diyan.

[Nelson de Leon]

Subukan ko lang kung tama ang interpretation ko based sa understanding ko kay Barrister.

Yes, 1 physical birth. 1 spiritual birth. I think baka what atty. bro Barrister meant was the salvation is still there. Ang problem lang siguro with us mere mortals is despite our salvation, we still sin. And sin separates us from God. So in effect, the offer of God for salvation is still there (hindi nawala ang salvation) BUT tayo ang bumibitaw sa salvation because of our sins. Hindi Diyos ang hindi nagbigay ng salvation pero tayo ang "bumitaw" sa salvation because of our inherent free will to sin. But then our God is always a forgiving God and is always ready to forgive us we are already adopted sons depending on our sincerity in asking for forgiveness.

[barrister]

But then our God is always a forgiving God and is always ready to forgive us we are already adopted sons depending on our sincerity in asking for forgiveness.

No, it's not true that God is always ready to forgive us. 

Kung totoo yon, bakit may unpardonable sin?  That wouldn't make sense.

Kung totoo yon, bakit may impiyerno pa?  Pag ihahagis ka na sa impiyerno, ask for forgiveness, and God, who is always ready to forgive you, will forgive you. 

E di wala nang pupunta sa impiyerno.  Lahat hihingi ng tawad, lahat patatwarin, e di dapat wala nang impiyerno.

Ano yon, arte lang, tinakot lang pero hindi naman pala tutuluyan?  O may limit pala ang patawad ng Diyos, at hindi totoo na God will always forgive us.

[pTrader]

ask ko lang lawyer ba si barrister, sabi sa itaas atty. bro Barrister? curious lang..

[Nelson de Leon]

No, it's not true that God is always ready to forgive us. 

Kung totoo yon, bakit may unpardonable sin?  That wouldn't make sense.

Kung totoo yon, bakit may impiyerno pa?  Pag ihahagis ka na sa impiyerno, ask for forgiveness, and God, who is always ready to forgive you, will forgive you. 

E di wala nang pupunta sa impiyerno.  Lahat hihingi ng tawad, lahat patatwarin, e di dapat wala nang impiyerno.

Ano yon, arte lang, tinakot lang pero hindi naman pala tutuluyan?  O may limit pala ang patawad ng Diyos, at hindi totoo na God will always forgive us.

Ah yes sir. Yun unpardonable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and yun repetitive sin sa OT na walang offering.

[pTrader]

Kawawa naman yung mabait na wala sa book of life at swerte nung loko loko na andun

If predestination is true, then what's the point of preaching and practicing? Is your God giving false hope?

sir may mabait ba talaga? kung anong bawal siyang ginagawa, lahat naman tayo quilty diyan at mabait ba yun?

[bumblebee]

The point is, under your belief, one cannot hope to go to heaven if his name is not on the list, which apparently, written before the beginning of time.

Mabuti pa si Santa Claus, bibigyan ka ng gift if you're nice.

[dpogs]

It's true that physical birth is only once, and spiritual birth is only once. 

However, just because you are spiritually reborn, it does not mean you will never spiritually die.  In the same manner, just because you were physically born, it does not mean you will never physically die.

As we can only be born physically once, we are going to die physically once. The same when it comes to spiritual birth only once and spiritual death only once.

Why we need to be born again spiritually, because we are dead spiritually.

During our physical birth, sin of Adam was passed unto us, thus we are dead spiritually.
During our spiritual birth, sin of Adam was taken away from us, and Holy Spirit now lives within us, within our heart.

When we become born again, we are already spiritually alive, and the blood of Jesus Christ washed our sins. and as promised by God, our sins He will remember no more because what God see in us is not our sins anymore but the blood of Jesus Christ.


Even if you were once saved, once you sin unto death, you can no longer be born again.  In fact, the bible says that you should not pray for a brother or sister who sinned unto death:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16-17)

John calls them brother or sister because they were born again, and they became brothers and sisters in the faith, not literal brothers and sisters.

After they were born again, they can lose their salvation if they sin unto death.  Once they lose their salvation, they can no longer be born again, since being born again can only happen once. 

Since we already born again spiritually from being spiritually dead then we didnt have to die again spiritually. one explanation here is that the "sin unto death" here means physical death not spiritual death, remember our God is our father and kapag nagkakamali tayo at patuloy na nagkakasala He will chastise us for us to be able to learn. If not, then His ultimate chastisement for His children is to bring them to heaven already para di na maging stumbling block dito sa lupa. God chastisment is only applicable to His children or born again.

The same thing that happened to Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-10)

That is why John says pray only for those brethren who sin not unto death; do not pray for those brethren who sin unto death because it will be useless.  They cannot have a second spiritual rebirth.

Therefore, while it is true that you can only be born again once, it is not true that salvation cannot be lost. 

That is why the bible says:

20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Peter 2:20-22)

As you will notice here, they were not referred as "sheep" but "dog" and "sow or pig". Nahugasan lang na baboy but never been a sheep. This is what we called self righteous people as pharisess and scribe during those times. The same thing happened to Judas. Judas knows Jesus Christ, Judas knows the way of righteousness, an Apostle, a friend of Jesus, can cast away devil in Jesus name, can heal sickness... but never was a "sheep" but just a "washed pig".

They have escaped the corruption of the world.  They were washed.  The sacred command was passed on to them.  They were no longer entangled in the corruption of the world.  It means they were previously born again.   They were saved.  Yet they lost their salvation.

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.  (Heb. 6:4-6)

Note how these people are described:

- once enlightened
- tasted the heavenly gift
- shared in the Holy Spirit
- tasted the goodness of the word of God
- tasted the powers of the coming age

Of course these people were born again.  These are not newly born again persons, they are mature Christians who were even commanded to "move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ" (Heb. 6:1).

Yet the verses explain that if they fall away, it will be impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.

Why? Because they were once born again, and they once received salvation, but they fell away and sinned unto death.

Now that they have lost their salvation, repentance is now useless because they can no longer be forgiven. They can't be born again for the 2nd time.  Do not pray for them, said John.

That is why Revelation says:

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still (Rev. 22:11)

What do we do with those who have lost their salvation?  Leave them.  Let them continue in their wickedness. 

Walang "born again and again and again" diyan.

[pTrader]

It's true that physical birth is only once, and spiritual birth is only once. 

However, just because you are spiritually reborn, it does not mean you will never spiritually die.  In the same manner, just because you were physically born, it does not mean you will never physically die.

Even if you were once saved, once you sin unto death, you can no longer be born again.  In fact, the bible says that you should not pray for a brother or sister who sinned unto death:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16-17)

John calls them brother or sister because they were born again, and they became brothers and sisters in the faith, not literal brothers and sisters.
 
After they were born again, they can lose their salvation if they sin unto death.  Once they lose their salvation, they can no longer be born again, since being born again can only happen once. 

That is why John says pray only for those brethren who sin not unto death; do not pray for those brethren who sin unto death because it will be useless.  They cannot have a second spiritual rebirth.

Therefore, while it is true that you can only be born again once, it is not true that salvation cannot be lost. 

16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.


John calls them brother or sister because they were born again, and they became brothers and sisters in the faith, not literal brothers and sisters.

Will there be death for those born of God if John himself said '18We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."

Will there be death for those who are born of God   if John himself said "4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."


going back to the verse:

16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

The instructions was given to the believer (If anyone ) by John. If we are saying that "his brother committing a sin" is born  of God then why then God will give him life? We know for sure that those who are born of God has life already.

It may seem as the "brother" can be a fellow believer or those who are  born of God and yet Did John identified them as those who are bon of God? 

And yet how can death overcome the  one born of God, if he is an overcomes the world?

4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

And how can death overcome the one born of God, if he is protected and the evil one cannot harm him?

18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
 

[pTrader]

The point is, under your belief, one cannot hope to go to heaven if his name is not on the list, which apparently, written before the beginning of time.

Mabuti pa si Santa Claus, bibigyan ka ng gift if you're nice.

Ikaw lang po at ikaw lang po ang nakaka-alam ng position mo sa harap ng Dios? Kung sino ka sa harap ng Dios at ano ang Dios sa harap mo?

Pero ang pag-asa ay nasa Mabuting Balita, manampalaya ka kay Jesus Christ.

Inde natin alam kung sino-sino yung hinahanap na tupa, maaring sinoman sa atin..


The point is, under your belief, one cannot hope to go to heaven

Kahit pa kaninong belief ang marininig mo please don't lose hope, unless sinabe mismo ng Dios na wala ka nang pag-asa.

Kina-usap ka na ba ng Dios o kina-usap mo na ba ang Dios tungkol sa pag-asa na iyan?

Marami ang nagsasabi kami lang ang ligtas, kayo papuntang  impiyerno kami puntang langit , kung wala ka sa church namin wala kang kaligtasan, pero ano ba talaga ang sinasabe sa iyo ng Dios mismo?

Mahalga po na malaman natin mismo ang sinasabe sa atin ng Dios sa atin sa buhay natin?

Sinabe Niya na makasalanan tayo at kailangan mag repent, hinge po tayo ng kapatawaran sa Dios at magsisi.

Sinabe niya na sumampalataya tao sa bugtong na Anak Niya na si JesuCrsito, manapalataya po tayo.


Mabuti pa si Santa Claus, bibigyan ka ng gift if you're nice.

Romans 3:10as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
 11no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
 12All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
 13“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
 14“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
 16in their paths are ruin and misery,
 17and the way of peace they have not known.”
 18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Kung nalalaman ni Santa Claus yan, mayroon kayang gift na naibigay mula pa ng namimigay  ng gift si Santa Claus? Baka si Santa Claus wal ring gift para sa kanya.

Marami pong batuhan at posting dito concerning forum member's faith and belief, marami tayong matututunan pero ano ba ang mensahe ng Dios sa iyo sa ikaliligtas ng iyung kaluluwa?

[barrister]

As we can only be born physically once, we are going to die physically once. The same when it comes to spiritual birth only once and spiritual death only once.

Why we need to be born again spiritually, because we are dead spiritually.

You mean because a person is spiritually dead, it means he was previously spiritually born (spiritual birth #1).  Then when he is born again from above, it means he is spiritually born for the second time (spiritual birth #2).

Hindi ganon yon sir.

You were born physically, that's birth #1.  When you are born again, that's birth #2, which is spiritual birth #1.

It's called born again because it's the 2nd birth, not the 2nd spiritual birth. 

Being born again is the 2nd birth if you don't specify what kind of birth.  But when you specify "spiritual," being born again is the 1st spiritual birth.

Why 1st spiritual birth?  Because it's the first time he was born of water and the Spirit. 

Since we already born again spiritually from being spiritually dead then we didnt have to die again spiritually. one explanation here is that the "sin unto death" here means physical death not spiritual death, remember our God is our father and kapag nagkakamali tayo at patuloy na nagkakasala He will chastise us for us to be able to learn. If not, then His ultimate chastisement for His children is to bring them to heaven already para di na maging stumbling block dito sa lupa. God chastisment is only applicable to His children or born again.

The same thing that happened to Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-10)

1 John 5:16-17 is talking about the unpardonable sin.  There are sins that are pardonable, called sins not unto death.  There are sins that are unpardonable, which are sins unto death.

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.  Did Ananias and Sapphira blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?  To answer that, you must first be able to define what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means.

Read Acts 5 again, and you will notice that it never says God killed Ananias and Sapphira.  Peter didn't kill them either.  All it says is that they fell and died.  They could have both died naturally from heart attacks due to the stress of being discovered.  There's simply no way to say for sure.

Peter did not predict Ananias' death.  Peter did not predict Sapphira's death either; Peter only said the men will carry her out, without specifying if she will be carried out dead, or merely unconscious.

Physical death happens to all of us, whether saved or unsaved, good or bad.  If physical death happens to all, why would sinning unto death mean physical death?  That wouldn't make sense.

If sinning unto death means physical death, what if all my sins are sins not unto death, and I never commit sins unto death.  It means I will never physically die?  You see how nonsensical that belief would be.

As you will notice here, they were not referred as "sheep" but "dog" and "sow or pig". Nahugasan lang na baboy but never been a sheep. This is what we called self righteous people as pharisess and scribe during those times. The same thing happened to Judas. Judas knows Jesus Christ, Judas knows the way of righteousness, an Apostle, a friend of Jesus, can cast away devil in Jesus name, can heal sickness... but never was a "sheep" but just a "washed pig".

The dog and the pig are analogies.  Analogies are relevant only to the specific point being discussed.

When a person returns to his evil ways after he was born again, he is referred to as a dog who returns to his own vomit or a sow who returns to the mud.

The issue is limited to the act of returning to a person's former evil ways.  It does not cover the situation before backsliding.  It does not cover the issue of predestination.

When a person is born again and follows the commands of Christ, he is referred to as sheep.  When he backslides, the same person is referred to as a dog or sow.  It doesn't mean he was always a dog or sow, it only means he is a dog or sow after he backslid.