Topic: Dai-ichi Speakers & sub

[arthurallanj]

Mga sirs, pwede ba ang Sakura 387 for Euros 6? Power handling kasi ng Euros 6 tower is 100w lang and Sakura has 250wx2 for fronts. Di kaya masunog and speaker? Mukha kasing alternative option ito from the DTX 9.5T. Kontinh help naman po. Thanks! 

Bro,
Please check the actual power rating sa product itself, kasi very often ang sa website inaccurate e. Check the back of the speaker. The reason why I'm doubting the spec on the website is because of the fact that the DTX 9.5 Tower is rated at 140W max. The euros, having more drivers might be able to handle higher power. But, if ganoon talaga ang rating ng euros 6, then you may opt for the DTX 9.5 Towers because mas mataas ang max power input rating. Here's my own little way of determining if a speaker can handle an amp. Since the DTX 9.5T is rated at 140W at 6 Ohms and the Sakura 387 at 250W at 8 Ohms, I don't think you should look at your amp as still supplying the same power at that impedance. My personal formula is this: Sakura; 250W / 8 Ohms = 31.25W/Ohm, At 6 Ohms; 31.25W/Ohm x 6 Ohms = 187.5 W. At 140w for the dtx 9.5Ts, the ideal amp power is 20% higher than the rating of the speaker. So it should ideally be driven by a 168W amp. Very close naman ang figures ng amp at speaker so, I don't think masusunog ang DTX 9.5T sa Sakura. Now, if the euros are really rated at 100Watts max lang, then I guess there's a possibility na masusunog sya, although, as I mentioned earlier, I find it hard to believe that the euros are rated at 100w max lang. But if ganun, the only solution would be, don't turn up the amp at max volume. Nang nag-audition kasi ako, di ko tiningnan ang likod e. Sorry, hehehe. I think the euros 6 are rated at around the same power rating of the DTX 9.5T or even higher. But on another hand, you could consider the euros 8, rated at 150W. Bro, please let me know if natingnan mo na ha? Thanks. eto rin kasi ang gusto kong bilhin next. hehe.

[cHiNo2728]

Thank you very much sa explanation Sir ArthurAllanJ. Actually I tried to compute the Euros 6 myself using your own formula pero I got lost in the mathematical equations (obvious bang mahina sa math! ) Sana nga mas mataas and power handling nya para pwede sya sa Sakura. Kung hindi naman, I would have to go for the Euros 8 or the DTX 9.5T.
Sir, do you have any idea on the the price per piece of the Euros 6 and 8? Especially the two towers? Okay kasi to kasi I like fronts to be on the bassy side.

[arthurallanj]

Thank you very much sa explanation Sir ArthurAllanJ. Actually I tried to compute the Euros 6 myself using your own formula pero I got lost in the mathematical equations (obvious bang mahina sa math! ) Sana nga mas mataas and power handling nya para pwede sya sa Sakura. Kung hindi naman, I would have to go for the Euros 8 or the DTX 9.5T.
Sir, do you have any idea on the the price per piece of the Euros 6 and 8? Especially the two towers? Okay kasi to kasi I like fronts to be on the bassy side.

Actually, I don't, but basing on the package price na 17,+++, I would say it's around 5K. Try calling Moses Aaron, 7354390. Nasa Bacolod kasi ako e. Please post kung magkano daw. I'm also planning to buy it e. Thanks.

Here's my formula: Power rating in Watts of the Amp divided by the rated impedance in Ohms, that would result in the power that the amp can drive per Ohm of impedance. Then multiply this value by the impedance of the speaker that the amp is going to drive. That would result in the actual power that the amp supplies the speaker based on the rated impedance of the speaker. But remember, this is just my own formula, I'm not saying this is accurate. This is just my own way of having an idea of how much power an amp drives a speaker with a different impedance. I hope Sir AVPhile or Sir Philander can give us their views about such computations.

Sample:

Sakura amp: 250W at 8 Ohms; 250W divided by 8 Ohms equals to 31.25 W/Ohm
DTX 9.5T: 6 Ohms; 31.25W/Ohm multiplied by 6 Ohms is equal to 187.5 W. This is the actual power that the amp can supply the speaker.

Since the max input power rating of the DTX 9.5 T is 140, it should be driven by an amp with at least 20% more power. 140W plus 20% is equal to 168W. Medyo close naman ang 187.5W sa 168W, di ba?

You're welcome bro, always willing to help.

[Yahoo!]

Called Moses Aaron and they quoted me these prices for the Euros sets with 5% discount even if per piece lang daw ang purchase.

euros 8
 Package (Front, center, rear, SW) Php 24,845.00
  Front                             Php 10,125.00
  Bookshelf                      Php 3,850.00
  Center                           Php 2,230.00
  Sub                                Php 8,640.00

euros 6
 Front                              Php 9,180.00
 Bookshelf                       Php 2,770.00
 Center                           Php 2,160.00
 Sub                                Php 4,860.00

Sir Art, malaki ba talaga difference ng tunog nito compared to the DTX especially the front? DTX 9.5T is only Php 3,800.00.   Yung Euros 6 na tower almost same price sa Wharf 8.4, got mine for Php 9,000.00 after the price increase  .

Musta na sir bago mong sub? how does it perform compared with the others?

Thanks...

[Yakuini]

euros 6
 Front                              Php 9,180.00

  Hindi ba sobrang mahal yun? Considering na hindi naman sila biwirable and paper cone lang driver nya? 

[john5479]

  Hindi ba sobrang mahal yun? Considering na hindi naman sila biwirable and paper cone lang driver nya? 

there are paper cone drivers that are priced at 10k++ so having a paper cone driver does not necessarily mean cheap

[Yakuini]

there are paper cone drivers that are priced at 10k++ so having a paper cone driver does not necessarily mean cheap

That is true. But I mean, i'd rather go for 8.4 if that is really the price for Euro 6. Hold muna siguro upgrade ko

[arthurallanj]

Called Moses Aaron and they quoted me these prices for the Euros sets with 5% discount even if per piece lang daw ang purchase.

euros 8
 Package (Front, center, rear, SW) Php 24,845.00
  Front                             Php 10,125.00
  Bookshelf                      Php 3,850.00
  Center                           Php 2,230.00
  Sub                                Php 8,640.00

euros 6
 Front                              Php 9,180.00
 Bookshelf                       Php 2,770.00
 Center                           Php 2,160.00
 Sub                                Php 4,860.00

Sir <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=Art&v=56">Art</a>, malaki ba talaga difference ng tunog nito compared to the DTX especially the front? DTX 9.5T is only Php 3,800.00.   Yung Euros 6 na tower almost same price sa Wharf 8.4, got mine for Php 9,000.00 after the price increase  .

Musta na sir bago mong sub? how does it perform compared with the others?

Thanks...

Wow, di ko ine-expect na ganyan ang presyo nyan. Less 5%, so mga 8,725. Now, talking about difference, sa presyong ganyan para sa Euros 6 na sub, I don't think ganoon kagaling yan. The DTX 4.12 sub costs around 7,200 w/ discount, e they both have 12" drivers, I would assume na the euros 6 sub is of inferior quality if compared to th 4.12. If medyo gipit, what I'd do is buy a 4.12 sub and the entire dtx9.5 system, since the 4.12 would definitely compensate for the bass reproduction inadequacies of the 9.5 Towers. But, If I have plenty of <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=money&v=56">money</a> I'd go for the entire euros 6 system except the sub and go for a DTX 4.15 Sub instead. This would be the ideal system for me. But, I don't think the price difference is worth it. And with regards to the sub that I recently acquired, a USAudio 512MK2, I like it better than the Dynaquest DQ12, the 512 seemed to produce more bass than the DQ12. But they were very similar in performance basing on my ears. It must be because the 512 had a larger 4th order enclosure while the DQ12 had a smaller ported, front-firing system. Hope I helped.

[arthurallanj]

  Hindi ba sobrang mahal yun? Considering na hindi naman sila biwirable and paper cone lang driver nya? 

Yup, paper cone nga sya, but AFAIK, it's silver coated. Daiichi has always been more into paper cones since paper has qualities that is least likely to affect sound reproduction. So the issue now is how to make paper more durable, Daiichi has several methods including application of different coatings and kevlar impregnation. This may be the reason why the euros are expensive, because of the silver coating. If you check their website, they have some info there about the technology they use. They have affiliations with several foreign companies, including DuPont, to help them with their coating technologies. That is why they also have esoteric audio sub drivers(for export) that are also quite expensive because it's kevlar impregnated. Now, the reason why the DTX 9.5Ts are very affordable maybe, because although it also has paper cones, it has a less expensive polymer coating. And one more thing, if hindi sya biwireable, then it's another plus for the 9.5 system. 

[cHiNo2728]

Grabe! Mahal pala ng Euros 6 and 8! Yung fronts pa lang is worth more than the whole DTX system. Naka-Kebao 6089 lang naman ako and Sakura 387. Generic lang naman ang hanap ko kasi pang-bedroom lang. I guess I would have to settle for the good ol' DTX 9.5T, 9.5C and 9.5B IMHO. Thanks for the info SeaCRmnd.

[arthurallanj]

Grabe! Mahal pala ng Euros 6 and 8! Yung fronts pa lang is worth more than the whole DTX system. Naka-Kebao 6089 lang naman ako and Sakura 387. Generic lang naman ang hanap ko kasi pang-bedroom lang. I guess I would have to settle for the good ol' DTX 9.5T, 9.5C and 9.5B IMHO. Thanks for the info SeaCRmnd.

I think the DTX 9.5 Speaker system is gonna do just fine with you. I think the so-called 'limits' are those that we set for ourselves. Parang  tahanan din yan e, "home is where you make it". If you're contented about it, then you can be happy about it, too. For me, The DTX 9.5 is a very good system considering the price. I think hanggang Daiichi na lang talaga ako, they've made me happy with their products and services, so it's very rare that I look at other brands. I know Daiichis are not the best, but for me, they're the best that my country can offer, and the best my money can buy. BUT, that's just me. 

[cHiNo2728]

Amen to that! Proudly Philippine made! It is also the best my meager finances can buy. 

[kimosabe]

Makabayan ka talaga Sir Arthur  Happy Independence Day sa iyo....

Para hindi OT:
Can I ask you a question since you are the expert in Dai-Ichi speakers. I'm using a DTX 4.12 sub, maganda sya sa HT, problema ko is sa audio, parang masyadong malalim yung tunog walang punch.  Ano magandang settings (sa crossover, volume level, etc.) para lumabas yung punch nya.

BTW, my AVR is HK 130, front is 8.3 (set sa large). Current settings, sa Crossover: 100hz, volume ng sub: +10dB sa audio, sa sub naman yung crossover naka max, volume: 12 oclock. Advise naman mga tsong... kailangan ko bang magpalit ng sub from 4.12 to 4.10.

Thanks.

[arthurallanj]

Makabayan ka talaga Sir Arthur  Happy Independence Day sa iyo....

Para hindi OT:
Can I ask you a question since you are the expert in Dai-Ichi <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=speakers&v=56">speakers</a>. I'm using a DTX 4.12 sub, maganda sya sa HT, problema ko is sa <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=audio&v=56">audio</a>, parang masyadong malalim yung tunog walang punch.  Ano magandang settings (sa crossover, volume level, etc.) para lumabas yung punch nya.

BTW, my AVR is HK 130, front is 8.3 (set sa large). Current settings, sa Crossover: 100hz, volume ng sub: +10dB sa <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=audio&v=56">audio</a>, sa sub naman yung crossover naka max, volume: 12 oclock. Advise naman mga tsong... kailangan ko bang magpalit ng sub from 4.12 to 4.10.

Thanks.

If your receiver is set at 100Hz, then definitely, mababa nga lang na bass ang maririnig mo, even if you set the crossover of the sub to max, it will only recive signals from the amp, 100Hz and below. Music bass signals are much higher, so I guess that explains why medyo dissatisfied ka sa naririnig mo. You could set the crossover setting higher but this would create another problem, there will be a localization of bass from your sub, AFAIK, anything above 200Hz is localized, but Sir AVPhile would say anything above 100 Hz is localized. So the solution? Turn off your sub when listening to audio resources. If you don't want that, you could buy another sub and connect them both to your front speakers. If you still don't want that, then you could just keep your settings to 100Hz, and just increase the volume, and maybe increase the bass on your front speakers. That's why some purists, have a different setup for music listening and HT. I don't think changing subs would help. The reason is because most modern HT subs have a low frequency cutoff, which is not ideal for listening to Music. Changing to front speakers with better bass reproduction would certainly help. Sir AV Phile, anything you can add to that? 

[av_phile1]

:
parang masyadong malalim yung tunog walang punch.  Ano magandang settings (sa crossover, volume level, etc.) para lumabas yung punch nya.

BTW, my AVR is HK 130, front is 8.3 (set sa large). Current settings, sa Crossover: 100hz, volume ng sub: +10dB sa audio, sa sub naman yung crossover naka max, volume: 12 oclock. Advise naman mga tsong... kailangan ko bang magpalit ng sub from 4.12 to 4.10.

Thanks.

I am not sure if I heard you right.  The goal of a sub in a stereo set-up is precisely to make the bass "malalim."  that means deep, so you can feel the bass rolling at 25hz, the lower the better.  The 'Punch" is actually in the 80z to 120hz which is where the kick drum lies.  So if  there's no perceived "punch" you have a hole in the bass spectrum. But judging from your settings, you should even have a preponderance of 'punch."  Your 8.3 is set to large, that means it is delivering down to its natural limit of 40hz.  Then setting the sub crossover from the receiver to 100hz will actuallly dovetail the bass frequencies below 100 hz down.  So you have the sub and the 8.3 belting out 100hz and below at the same time.  Dapat overwhelming yung bass mo.  Try, reversing the polarity using the polairty switch on the sub.  It's possible the sub's phase may be cancelling the bass from your 8.3.

[arthurallanj]

Kita nyo na? Basta si Sir AV ang sumagot, it's like talking to somebody speaking another language. Hehe. Parang "in english please?".  I am always humbled when Sir AV answers our questions. Sir AV, wag na wag kang aalis dito sa PinoyDVD ha? Hehehe. God Bless. 

[cousin skeeter]

Makabayan ka talaga Sir Arthur  Happy Independence Day sa iyo....

Para hindi OT:
Can I ask you a question since you are the expert in Dai-Ichi speakers. I'm using a DTX 4.12 sub, maganda sya sa HT, problema ko is sa audio, parang masyadong malalim yung tunog walang punch.  Ano magandang settings (sa crossover, volume level, etc.) para lumabas yung punch nya.

BTW, my AVR is HK 130, front is 8.3 (set sa large). Current settings, sa Crossover: 100hz, volume ng sub: +10dB sa audio, sa sub naman yung crossover naka max, volume: 12 oclock. Advise naman mga tsong... kailangan ko bang magpalit ng sub from 4.12 to 4.10.

Thanks.

am using a 4.10 and i didnt like it when listening to music before, the sound was like "blag! blag!". but now after several months of use on ht, i tried it again for music, swabe na!  it sounds more like "oomph! oomph!". now am a firm believer that subs really need a long time, months to  break in. ngayon, the sub is always on when am listening to music, especially rnb, pop and rock.

give it some time bro, youll miss the low oomphs if you replace it with a 4.10. one suggestion lang, why not upgrade to an 8.4? since you need to augment 100hz frequecies, i think replacing your 8.3 with an 8.4 will be a better solution. it wont be hard to sell your 8.3 also. diamonds are fast sellers. 

[kimosabe]

Salamat sa tulong mga sirs, ganon na nga lang ginagawa ko I turned off the sub whenever I listen to music yun nga lang medyo bitin sa bass especially sa rock/disco music pero in easy listening swabe naman warm tumunog.

Siguro break-in ko nga muna bago lang naman kasi yung sub, mga two weeks pa lang. Baka gumanda pa, sa audio lang naman ako nagkakaproblema but in HT solved na solved ako.

[komodo]

To: av_phile and arthurallaj,

Mga pre im just new here at pinoy dvd and i would like to thank you and the rest of the guys and gals here for sharing your unselfish toughts and insights especially the audio and video hobby. Its very helpful especially to the newbies like me.

Right now i just both the sakura and dtx combo and  frankly speaking im very much satisfied with it (na enganyo akong bumili dahil sa nabasa ko sa thread d2). I enjoy it a lot. Before after office eh nag ma-mall muna ako bago umuwi ngayon eh nasa office pa lang ako eh atat na atat na kong umuwi para maka relax sa aking hobby and i always look up at Saturday and Sunday para mapakinggan ko yung full potential ng set up ko kasi d ko ito magawa ng weekdays baka batuhin ako ng kapit bahay namin.

Well thanks sa inyong lahat and I hope you continually stay here at pinoy dvd para lalo pa kayong makatulong sa iba pa dyan na mahilig sa ganitong hobby.

[av_phile1]

Komodo,  glad to hear you are enjoying your new toys.  I, too,  look forward to saturdays and sundays to enjoy listening.  And it saddens me to leave and turn them off every Monday morning to go to work.

[arthurallanj]

Bro Komodo,

Now, I found another thing that we and Sir AV have in common. I always look forward to weekends din. Sinasanay ko na nga baby girl ko sa HT sound, kasi medyo magugulatin pa sya ngayon. Nalulungkot nga ako secretly kung may 'gig' kami ng banda on Saturdays e. Kahit pera din yun, parang nakakalungkot pa rin. Okay lang kung trabaho on Saturdays kasi half day lang. Anyway, OT na kasi e, Sir AV, I sent you a PM. Thanks.

[fierari]

am using a 4.10 and i didnt like it when listening to music before, the sound was like "blag! blag!". but now after several months of use on ht, i tried it again for music, swabe na!  it sounds more like "oomph! oomph!". now am a firm believer that subs really need a long time, months to  break in. ngayon, the sub is always on when am listening to music, especially rnb, pop and rock.

give it some time bro, youll miss the low oomphs if you replace it with a 4.10. one suggestion lang, why not upgrade to an 8.4? since you need to augment 100hz frequecies, i think replacing your 8.3 with an 8.4 will be a better solution. it wont be hard to sell your 8.3 also. diamonds are fast sellers. 

sir nag hahanap kasi ako ng sub 50/50 music & ht ano ba dapat ang sub ko? 10" or 12"? may delay ba talaga pag 12" ang sub? dapat ba mag 10" na lang ako? magkano dtx 4.10?

tnx!

[kimosabe]

sir nag hahanap kasi ako ng sub 50/50 music & ht ano ba dapat ang sub ko? 10" or 12"? may delay ba talaga pag 12" ang sub? dapat ba mag 10" na lang ako? magkano dtx 4.10?

tnx!

Sir, for DTX 4.10 - 6,500 and for 4.12 - 7,500 less 5% pa yan, sa Knight Audio sa Raon along Quezon Avenue lang sya.

[john9one]

sir, how much for a 4.15 sub? TIA

[arthurallanj]

The last time I checked, the DTX 4.15 costs 8,200 less 5% sa Moses Aaron. Try calling them at 735-4390.

[fierari]

The last time I checked, the DTX 4.15 costs 8,200 less 5% sa Moses Aaron. Try calling them at 735-4390.

   kamusta naman sya sa music compared sa 4.12?

[arthurallanj]

   kamusta naman sya sa music compared sa 4.12?

Very similar sila ng 4.12. Na-confuse nga ako when I auditioned which one was turned on and which one was turned off. Mas malakas ng konti ang bass, but not overpowering. The big difference can be heard when using it for movies. Sa laki ba naman ng 4.15, definitely what my dreams are made of.

 

[fierari]

Very similar sila ng 4.12. Na-confuse nga ako when I auditioned which one was turned on and which one was turned off. Mas malakas ng konti ang bass, but not overpowering. The big difference can be heard when using it for movies. Sa laki ba naman ng 4.15, definitely what my dreams are made of.

 

pambihira ka arthur nagsimula ako sa 10" tapos 12"  tapos ngayon mukang na sales talk mo nanaman ako sa 15"

 

[arthurallanj]

pambihira ka arthur nagsimula ako sa 10" tapos 12"  tapos ngayon mukang na sales talk mo nanaman ako sa 15"

 

Di naman, bro. He he. I just don't want you to have an upgrade that soon, kasi for a little more, 15-incher na di ba? And that's not sales talk, bro, kasi di naman ako ang nagbebenta nyan e, hehehe. Ako, ganun na rin nga, e, I said, for a few hundred more why not go all the way na. Kaya I'm saving up for the DTX 4.15 talaga, kasi that's where I've set my limits, para no near-future upgrades. Anyway, bro, di ba sabi ko, just like the saying "home is where the heart is", I'll say, "happiness comes when there is content, and content is what you've decided it would be". Kung you've decided na sa 10-incher or 12-incher kuntento ka na, then good. That's why we all have to set for ourselves our own limits. God Bless.

[fierari]

ang ibig kong sabihin eh nadedemonyo mo na ako hehehehe

 

ser pwede ko ba ma audition yang 4.12 mo?