Author Topic: Speaker DIY'ers  (Read 309595 times)

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Offline m0b1u5

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #900 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 10:19 AM »
What brand ng wood glue and best gamitin? Thanks.
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #901 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 10:25 AM »
I used Stikwell. It came in a clear plastic bag inside a plastic jar. Not very elegant. Messy. But it  applied easily, was tacky, dried fast and held well. I would have preferred those yellowish bottled wood glues.
« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2014 at 10:56 AM by Gino »

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #902 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:24 AM »
I used Stikwell. It came in a clear plastic bag inside a plastic jar. Not very elegant. Messy. But it  applied easily, was tacky, dried fast and held well. I would have preferred those yellowish bottled wood glues.

For two very flat and flush surfaces together, I use Elmer's wood glue, it's very strong once dried fully, and dries a clear/transparent color.

Stikwel is also good, but I prefer Elemer's wood glue.

But Stikwel has it's advantages: it's thicker (so it doesn't run or drip easily), it's better than Elmer's when the two wood that you're connecting isn't that flat flush (may konting inconsistency/gap), and since it's thick, I use it as a sealent for enclosures. You can't do that with Elmer's since it's thin and easily drips/spreads out. And also it's cheaper than Elmer's (and other wood glues).

There are other stronger/durable wood glues out there (such as Pioneer Contruction bond and No More Nails, which are NOT water based, and way stronger based on forums), but as much as possible, I like handling water based glues such as Elmer's and Stikwel since it can be cleaned/wiped easily (tubig lang katapat, especially your hands), and is strong enough for indoor applications.

BTW, did you know that Stikwel also sells a 250g plastic sachet version? Parang yung mga Elastoseal sachets, you just cut the end of the plastic and apply as necessary. No more mess, no more wastage, mahirap nga yung Stikwel na nasa loob ng plastic jar, I hate that. Unfortunately, very limited lang nakita kong pouch version, I just see it at Cherry Foodarama Grocery. Wala pa akong nakikita sa iba.
« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:48 AM by RXV »
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #903 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM »
I see. Mas cost effective nga ang sachet. Good points you raised.

I agree with your comment about the thickness of Stikwell. I was able to build layers when needed and fill gaps. Cleanup of hands was easy. Just wipe it off. Let residue dry and rub off. It did not wash off with water.

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #904 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:47 AM »
Stikwel also has a bottle version (like Elmer's Glue bottle), but I find it way overpriced, just for putting it into a bottle container. Yung sachet kasi, if ever you don't get to use all of it, just "pisil" the hole that you cut, and there, you can use it again soon.

The Stikwel on the plastic jar is a nightmare for me. It's very hard and time consuming to use, since you're going to have to use a stick of some sort to apply to wood, you're hands get messy (hindi maiiwasan), and there is a lot of wastage (matutuyo ang ibang glue when exposed to air).

With the pouch/sachet version, I get to use around 95% of it all the time, all without the mess/hassle. And it's priced same as the plastic jar version (per gram). The bottle version is I think almost double the price (per gram).

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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #905 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:59 AM »
Good to know. I will look at the groceries and hardwares here. I also like to try the bottled glues.

I saw Elmers multi-purpose glue (white). Does this have a different formula from the wood glue?

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #906 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 12:05 PM »
I believe the Elmers multi-purpose glue is different from the Elmer's wood glue (beige color, around P100)
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #907 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 12:38 PM »
Thanks RXV.

Offline m0b1u5

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #908 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 01:14 PM »
Thanks. I am still looking for a good build for my Coral 10A and thinking of using a 3/4 MDF for the cabinet and acoustic foam for stuffing.
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #909 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 01:24 PM »
My problem with acoustic foam is they tend to have closed cells. This means they displace internal volume. To me, that is the biggest way they influence sound rather than dissipating or absorbing sound. If I need help in that area, I will use wool carpet liners.

Nothing wrong with using them provided you use them for your intended effect.
« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2014 at 01:49 PM by Gino »

Offline deist

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #910 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 02:28 PM »
+1 on RXV's recommendation re stikwel sachet, easier to use. Also tried No More Nails (also has a sachet version) sa kitchen cabinet & I would say strong bond talaga, nasira na yung plywood nakadikit pa rin yung joints. For the expensive stuff, Tite Bond is highly recommended.



My problem with acoustic foam is they tend to have closed cells. This means they displace internal volume. To me, that is the biggest way they influence sound rather than dissipating or absorbing sound. If I need help in that area, I will use wool carpet liners.

Nothing wrong with using them provided you use them for your intended effect.

Totally agree with Gino here, wool felt is one if not the most effective lining/stuffing but it's hard to source locally, I've been looking for it since last year. Marami sa ebay puro international sellers, quite expensive with shipping & duties.

Another option is fiberglass batting but it's a health hazard when inhaled esp if you will be using it in a vented enclosure. Rockwool is an alternative but there are still debates about its effect on health when inhaled. Another option is polyfill (stuffing for pillows & stuff toys), madaling humanap, cheap & quite effective, recommended sa DIYaudio. Look for 100% polyester type.

If you are keen on using foam, look for open cell type. I think meron si Uratex I just don't have any idea about the cost.

« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2014 at 02:40 PM by deist »

Offline timber715

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #911 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 08:02 PM »
I believe the Elmers multi-purpose glue is different from the Elmer's wood glue (beige color, around P100)
Good to know. I will look at the groceries and hardwares here. I also like to try the bottled glues.

I saw Elmers multi-purpose glue (white). Does this have a different formula from the wood glue?
The only difference in formulation between the white (multi purpose glue) and the yellow (wood glue) is the open time. And Elmer's glue isn't water based. PVC glue sya that you can clean up with water.

Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #912 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 09:53 PM »
Another day of rough sanding. Worked on aligning the edges and keeping the edges square. Sanding is a b**ch.







« Last Edit: Jun 29, 2014 at 09:56 PM by Gino »

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #913 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:18 PM »
The only difference in formulation between the white (multi purpose glue) and the yellow (wood glue) is the open time. And Elmer's glue isn't water based. PVC glue sya that you can clean up with water.

Thanks for the clarification :)
What do you mean by open time? Drying time?
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Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #914 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:18 PM »
Another day of rough sanding. Worked on aligning the edges and keeping the edges square. Sanding is a b**ch.









Looking good. Sa sanding din ako napipikon hehe
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #915 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:24 PM »
My speakers are small pa he he. I can't imagine working on a floorstander without an orbital sander.

Offline timber715

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #916 on: Jun 29, 2014 at 11:55 PM »
Thanks for the clarification :)
What do you mean by open time? Drying time?
Not really drying time as both need 24 hours to fully cure or dry. Open time is more on the time it sets. Yung yellow kasi will harden after a shorter period of time unlike the white one. Tight fitting joints will be impossible to fit if the glue initially sets. That is why several glue from manufacturers have different open time, kasi you will encounter assembling a project that requires a lot of joints to be done in one pass. Example would be a baby crib with lots of bars. These bars need to be glued at the same time, pag maliit ang open time.... Sakit sa ulo!

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #917 on: Jun 30, 2014 at 05:04 PM »
Not really drying time as both need 24 hours to fully cure or dry. Open time is more on the time it sets. Yung yellow kasi will harden after a shorter period of time unlike the white one. Tight fitting joints will be impossible to fit if the glue initially sets. That is why several glue from manufacturers have different open time, kasi you will encounter assembling a project that requires a lot of joints to be done in one pass. Example would be a baby crib with lots of bars. These bars need to be glued at the same time, pag maliit ang open time.... Sakit sa ulo!

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

So you mean, if  you're not pressed for time (ex. overnight drying), the Elmer's "multi-purpose" white glue will have the same strength properties of the Elmer's "wood" glue? Malayo rin kasi ang price ng multi-purpose sa wood glue e
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Offline timber715

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #918 on: Jun 30, 2014 at 10:43 PM »
Okay, thanks for the clarification.

So you mean, if  you're not pressed for time (ex. overnight drying), the Elmer's "multi-purpose" white glue will have the same strength properties of the Elmer's "wood" glue? Malayo rin kasi ang price ng multi-purpose sa wood glue e
Yes... They have the same formulation. Clamping time also is affected by open time btw. The yellow glue can be unclamped after 45 mins to an hour and the joint should hold. On the white glue, it should be safe to remove the clamps after 3 hours.... After 24 hours of curing time, they are the same....

Offline JojoD818

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #919 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 10:54 AM »
Another day of rough sanding. Worked on aligning the edges and keeping the edges square. Sanding is a b**ch.



Buhay na buhay ang mga kanto... pag may nauntog diyan putok ang ulo... >:D



My speakers are small pa he he. I can't imagine working on a floorstander without an orbital sander.


Magagamit mo din yun sander sa finishing... ;)


Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #920 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 11:52 AM »
Yes... They have the same formulation. Clamping time also is affected by open time btw. The yellow glue can be unclamped after 45 mins to an hour and the joint should hold. On the white glue, it should be safe to remove the clamps after 3 hours.... After 24 hours of curing time, they are the same....

Thanks for the info :)
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #921 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 11:57 AM »
No pain no gain. Final stages of block sanding. Para akong naghahasa ng samurai blade. Well that's how I was psyching myself.






Offline audiojunkie

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #922 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 12:17 PM »

Ganda na...! Looking forward to final wood finish.. 
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Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #923 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 12:23 PM »
Next step, drill holes for hardware. Then apply sanding sealer. I will be testing stain & finish on scraps soon.
« Last Edit: Jul 02, 2014 at 01:35 PM by Gino »

Offline arbitrage

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #924 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 12:42 PM »
Ganda na!

Cant wait for a sound review.

Got inspired by your build Gino, sama ako sa group buy ng Audio Nirvana. Planning on building bookshelf speakers din lang.

 :)

Offline Gino

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #925 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 12:56 PM »
Yup if that group buy pushes through, there will be a lot of building soon.

Offline RXV

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #926 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 01:26 PM »
Mapupuno 'tong thread na'to :)
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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #927 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 04:22 PM »
Yup if that group buy pushes through, there will be a lot of building soon.

You guys got any suggestions on what AN driver size I should get for a bookshelf build for a small 22 sqm room about 8 feet in height?

Offline arbitrage

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #928 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 08:25 PM »
Stuffings, liners, deadeners, diameter and length of ports all affect how sound is produced. While theories exists, it's really tuning by ear.

The main tuning is by design. Box internal volume, structure, port dimensions if any.

In my case I talked with full range guru Bob Brines of Fostex MLTL fame. He suggested this box. 5 liters, tuned to 100hz. The smoothens the midrange up. I built it to the letter and the result is fantastic.

How were you able to get in touch with Bob Brines?

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Re: Speaker DIY'ers
« Reply #929 on: Jul 02, 2014 at 10:53 PM »
Next step, drill holes for hardware. Then apply sanding sealer. I will be testing stain & finish on scraps soon.

Gino, ingat ingat lang sa sanding sealer, that's where I did a slight mistake and had to re-sand EVERYTHING again.

If it's Ace Hardware brand, don't expect it to dry as quick as the instructions say. It will dry, but it easily and quickly clogs sandpaper (it's actually very tricky to sand, dapat pantay ang pag-sand mo to all areas). Slow curing time for me.

But for me, I think you need sanding sealer, para pantay ang stain mo. Based on my experience, if you don't use sanding sealer, expect areas with bigger pores and more grain (such as the ply lines) to absorb more stain and therefore appear darker than the other areas. A necessary evil if I would say so.
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