Topic: Which way to go, analog or digital?

[JojoD818]

doc, OK to ha! ano naman kaya ang specialty? anything edible related to "hearing" tulad ng sisig, tengang daga?? peace po!

that's just a thought, malay mo meron shop bigla mag offer nito diba.... cge, at mag audiophile coffee (wala sa Starbucks nyan) and audiophile cigarette break muna ako. Naks! 

[kimpao]

ahahaha! meron din ako nyan! Kaso nag molds na yun Memorex na tapes, yun BASF na lang ang malinis. Tamang tama yan sa surveilance kasi may recording speed na pwedeng 24 hours yun isang tape. hehehe... Kim hindi na yata para sa analog yan, tools of another trade na yata yan pre kaya meron ka nyan. 

chief, analog pa rin ang classification niyan.  i've seen somewhere from the other site (don't know which particular thread) that these reel tape recordings are the closest to the real thing. But come to think of it    directly diyan siya nire-record diba, siya yung master recording before transferring to other media. 

Pre baka naman 8 mm na film reel ang sinasabi mo. yung kailangan magsabit kapa ng kumot as screen tapos manonood ka ng mga sinaunang tooooooooot.............. Censord...... Ahehhehee

[kimpao]

audiophile cigarette break muna ako. Naks! 

audiophile cigarette break?    = bagong project nanaman. ano yan?!....digital turntable na may DAC at OPAMP Bwahahahahaha.......

[john5479]

kimpao: dac with tube output and tube rectified yung bagong project

[kimpao]

kimpao: hindi po dac with tube output and tube rectified yung bagong project

Aba! Aba! Mukhang may pinaluluto ka nanaman adrian.    Btw, musta na chief... Bihira ka nalang sumama sa mga session, busy?

[john5479]

kimpao: pasaway off ko these past few months, ngayon sat-sun na uli kaya pwedeng sumama.

[aHobbit]

Whoahey!!!!!............   Was also able to find my dad's reel tape player yun tag 4 hrs bawat reel. 

Ibig mong sabihin may shoot-out ng tape reel - got one also! 

[aHobbit]

IMHO there are great recordings in cd/hdcd/xrcd and great recordings for LPs as well.

Yan ang audiophile - can track good music in any format! 

For me you can actually set-up an analog rig that is cheaper and more musically satisfying but more maintenance.

 

In contrast you can set-up a digital rig for convenience but for it to be musically satisfying you may have to spend more.

 

for me yes...is it superior to an analog front end ? I won't go that far.

... or else you are courting another fire and brimstone 

[bruno]

Here's my take on the matter:

Digital = accuracy

Analog = naturalness

Accuracy is like high resolution digital photographs that captures images at bizzare level of details that we sometimes miss with our own naked eye.  What's there is there.

Naturalness naman is what our senses will likely perceive.  We might not perceive everything that's there but it may please our senses.  Very subjective ito dahil di naman parepareho ang pandinig ng tao.

[bruno]

i've had a tube CDP before with the notion that i can "capture" the sound of analog with a good CDP, de tubo pa at that...but still the sound of analog would haunt me (i just had a technics back then)...

Just a Technics?

Are you trying to imply that Technics is an inferior TT?

Magagalit ang mga UTOT and TAE nyan. 

[bruno]

yun cassette sa analog yun kasali diba? meron pa ako player nun at mga metal typeII tapes. 

Metal is Type IV.

[Superman]

Just a Technics?

Are you trying to imply that Technics is an inferior TT?

Magagalit ang mga UTOT and TAE nyan. 

bro, i didn't say technics is inferior...i stand corrected should have been "i was using a technics then"...it was my very reliable SL-1600...sorry for the wrong choice of words peace po tayo!

PS: UTOT and TAE member din naman ako eh

[JojoD818]

Metal is Type IV.

yan ng nakalagay eh, typeII hindi typeIV. baka fake yun meron ako. 

[JojoD818]

chief, analog pa rin ang classification niyan.  i've seen somewhere from the other site (don't know which particular thread) that these reel tape recordings are the closest to the real thing. But come to think of it    directly diyan siya nire-record diba, siya yung master recording before transferring to other media. 

Pre baka naman 8 mm na film reel ang sinasabi mo. yung kailangan magsabit kapa ng kumot as screen tapos manonood ka ng mga sinaunang tooooooooot.............. Censord...... Ahehhehee

senyor, pang audio yun reel eh, hindi pang video.  pero nakapanood pa ako nun ha, kaso lang walang sound. 

kailangan muna marepair ito deck, ayaw kumagat nun capstan. 

[kimpao]

senyor, pang audio yun reel eh, hindi pang video.  pero nakapanood pa ako nun ha, kaso lang walang sound. 

kailangan muna marepair ito deck, ayaw kumagat nun capstan. 

mukhang yan din problema ko kagabi, medyo malutong na yun rubber nya. meron pa kaya sa raon.
 

[JojoD818]

magtitingin ako mamya pero kung wala, sabi nun neighbor ko pwede daw convert yun capstan nun sa mga luma betamax at vhs  sana meron pa pre. hay buti na lang yun cassette deck ko buo pa. 

[MAtZTER]

Hi guys, I have been into mostly HT since I joined pdvd. So all I know is using a single digital coax from DVD to AVR. I have been enjoying audio lately, so I tried using alternative connections yesterday, so:

Tama ba? Analog is using 2 coax for the L&R of the CD/DVD player and connecting it to the L&R of the AVR? Better ba sound nito than using one digital coax? Or is this used for turntables and tubes lang?

Digital is using 1 coax or fiber optic cable from AVR to DVD/CD player?

What interconnect is best for the 2 coax (L&R) ? silver ? copper?

Can I use the silver interconnect as digital coax?

TIA

[bumblebee]

When you use a player's digital output, you let an external DAC (digital to analog converter) do the DAC (digital to analog conversion), in your case, that's your HK 630. If you use the analog output of a player (L/R), you are using the player's DAC to do the DAC.

So, if you have an expensive player and use digital connections, you're merely using the player as a transport. Sayang naman, except if you have a "better" external DAC than your player's.

Coax is different from standard RCA cables. I think you can use coax for analog outputs but you can't use standard RCA cables for digital connections. Not so sure though.

[Jagner]

Hi,

Been reading this thread and trying to understand the arguments on which way to go, Analog or Digital?  I'm a music fan and I don't care much if the music is cut in vinyl or pressed in CD.  What matters is that I appreciate the music I listen to, IMHO.

On the question of which way to go, Analog or Digital:  Here’s a question: are we the ones to decide which way to go or the recording companies?  Sure, there are quite a number of turntables (exotic and entry level) that are coming out, but is there enough software to complement the growing need?  Will commercial record companies bring back their cutting machines and produce LPs along with CDs, knowing that recording companies earn more because the cost of production for CDs is cheaper than LPs?   If the argument is that  LPs are cheaper to produce, then why do these record companies continue to produce CDs, and are in fact, improving the medium (SACD, XRCD, XRCD2, HDCD, etc)?  Also, why is the production of LPs limited to Audiophile classics and not commercial recordings?  It’s all ‘bout profit taking, I guess. 

Digital is still in and may still be the future, and it’s not because of the music.

Just my opinion.

Cheers.

[tuff_u_gong]

Hi,

Been reading this thread and trying to understand the arguments on which way to go, Analog or Digital?  I'm a music fan and I don't care much if the music is cut in vinyl or pressed in CD.  What matters is that I appreciate the music I listen to, IMHO.

i think iceman already pointed out above the importance of knowing what type of music you listen to when choosing to go analog or not. for example, if someone likes pre-1990 music, it might make sense to invest in some analog gear. why? i have two answers in mind right now.

First, its doesn't seem easy to find pre-1990 titles in either CD or SACD format, whether from off- or on-line sources. Used LPs in Mint condition of pre-1990 titles are neither expensive nor that hard to find. lalo na ngayong madami nang nagbebenta ng LPs ulit.

Second, while this might not be true for new recordings, i find that most of the pre 1980 stuff released in CD format sound very inferior to their vinyl counterparts. Madalas manipis, matalas at nakakapagod pakinggan ang maraming old titles na released in CD format before 1990. Supposedly maraming flaws ang Digital to analog processing noon. Ngayon the technology is far better, that's why many new recordings do not sound that bad anymore. Nevertheless, the better sounding remastered material from the past are not very common and can still be quite expensive (e.g. XRCDs or SACDs).

On the question of which way to go, Analog or Digital:  Here’s a question: are we the ones to decide which way to go or the recording companies?  Sure, there are quite a number of turntables (exotic and entry level) that are coming out, but is there enough software to complement the growing need?  Will commercial record companies bring back their cutting machines and produce LPs along with CDs, knowing that recording companies earn more because the cost of production for CDs is cheaper than LPs?   If the argument is that  LPs are cheaper to produce, then why do these record companies continue to produce CDs, and are in fact, improving the medium (SACD, XRCD, XRCD2, HDCD, etc)?  Also, why is the production of LPs limited to Audiophile classics and not commercial recordings?  It’s all ‘bout profit taking, I guess. 

Digital is still in and may still be the future, and it’s not because of the music.

Just my opinion.

Cheers.

The supply side or the decisions made by the record companies on what format to support is not within the buyers' influence. However, on the demand side, baka meron tayong epekto. Bakit nga ba ang dami nang nagbebenta ng LPs
ulit ngayon dito sa manila? Bakit nga ba dumadami ang brands ng turntables, cartridges, phono stage, record cleaners ang pumapasok lately? Kasi medyo lumalaki ang merkado.

Hindi rin totoong audiophile material lang ang lumalabas. Si Norah Jones, Diana Krall, atbp. na may pop following din naman
ay lumalabas pa din sa plaka. Marami ding oldies na di naman audiophile classics ang available pa din sa LP. Palagay ko malaking market pa rin ito kung pag aaralan lang ng mga record companies nang mabuti.

doon na man sa gustong pumasok ng analog, word of warning: ingat lang. the analog path can be quite dangerous.
nandyan ang napakadaming maaaring maging kakabit na gastos: maporma and heavy duty turntables, low output MC cartridges, decent phono stage, cleaning accesories, anti-warp devices, precision power supply belt drive motors etc...naku talagang napaka delikado...so try to keep it simple at first, pa-attend-attend ng sessions, etc. para maalalayan ang gastos. huwag na lang maghabol nang maghabol  kung hindi, mapapasubo ka nang husto.


ngayon doon sa mga talagang ayaw mag-analog: di naman sila dapat pilitin. OK lang sa amin. At least makakabawas sa mga pacman o piranhang  kalaban sa plaka.   



siempre opinyon ko rin lang lahat ang mga ito.



 

[av_phile1]

Hi,

Been reading this thread and trying to understand the arguments on which way to go, Analog or Digital?  I'm a music fan and I don't care much if the music is cut in vinyl or pressed in CD.  What matters is that I appreciate the music I listen to, IMHO.

Nothing could be more important in this hobby.  Whether digital or analog, it's the music that you find listening pleasure with that makes this hobby worth the investment you make.
 

On the question of which way to go, Analog or Digital:  Here’s a question: are we the ones to decide which way to go or the recording companies?  Sure, there are quite a number of turntables (exotic and entry level) that are coming out, but is there enough software to complement the growing need?  Will commercial record companies bring back their cutting machines and produce LPs along with CDs, knowing that recording companies earn more because the cost of production for CDs is cheaper than LPs?   If the argument is that  LPs are cheaper to produce, then why do these record companies continue to produce CDs, and are in fact, improving the medium (SACD, XRCD, XRCD2, HDCD, etc)?  Also, why is the production of LPs limited to Audiophile classics and not commercial recordings?  It’s all ‘bout profit taking, I guess.

 

All business is about profit.   Newly pressed LPs are often limited to audiophile pressings, as this is the market those LP releases are targeting.  That's where the demand is, according to the labels making them. 

Vinyl LPs have technically gone the way of dinosours.  Except for these few audiophile LP pressing.  Manufacturers have early on realized the economic benefits of going CD over LP.  One thing for sure,  the LP vinyl is petrol-based.  And it doesn't even take one plus one to figure out why record makers would junk this media.  One tragic result of the oil crises in the mid 70s was the production of recycled vinyls whose impurities created so much objectional surface noise.  And the use of light and thin vinyls that acted like drum parchment on the turntable to capture microphonics to induce resonances.  Neither of these endeared the vinyl to audiophiles at a time when a new media was about to be revealed.

The cost of manufacturing a single CD has grown so small that record companies are really raking in the profits and howling a storm of protests anytime this is threatened, like napster and other online music exchanges.  Even home recordings never had it so cheap.  I remember the time using one-hour TDK metal cassette tapes that cost P250 each to copy and compile my favourties from LPs.  That was 20 years ago. Today, I can do the same on a CDR for P15.00, despite all the inflation and exchange rate skyrocketing since.

Digital is still in and may still be the future, and it’s not because of the music.

It is inescapable.  Thanks largely to the ever-increasing computational power in micro-chip developments, you get higher and higher digital quantization that may not be entirely necessary according to Nyquist, but gives comfort and confidence to audiophiles that the quantization process approaches analog resoltuion, without the problems of analog. 

[Narayan]

  Was also able to find my dad's reel tape player yun tag 4 hrs bawat reel. 

my first serious hifi source more than 2 decades ago was a sony reel to reel tape deck(pre-owned pa)  cant complain about the sound

[av_phile1]

my first serious hifi source more than 2 decades ago was a sony reel to reel tape deck(pre-owned pa)  cant complain about the sound

Analog record masters were and are made on large format open reels.   Even those digital recordings are made on digital open reels.    Commercial stereo open reels from Teac, Marantz, Tandberg, etc, often have no peer in the audiophile playback field. Ever wondered why professional recordings are made on open reels?   They're simply the best.  Most have a 50khz bandwidth. If you think analog is better, it had to be open reels in general,  not turntables. Ofcourse, that's also brand dependent.   Only problem was, using them can be unwieldy and there were so few software titles in those formats.  Even within the open reel format, there were plenty of options, half-inch, quarter-inch,  1-inch.  And they're not interchangeable.  Because of this, they lost the home market to cassettes and then to VCRs and CDRs.  Just a thought. 

[edboy7]

and 2 inchers too sir AV roamed around here @ the office and found this one....Our Studer A800 MKIII 24 track recorder   ULTIMATE ANALOG  EXPERIENCE YATA TO sadly, we never played it  wala kasing avaialble na tape

[av_phile1]

Wow, looks like a studio-grade museum piece of an open reel, edboy.     There may be some software titles available on the net that you can check.  I distinctly recall seeing a website offering preowned 1/2 inch and 1" Ampex tapes with recorded Classics straight from the master reels.  Ranging from $50 to $300.  Just not so sure about 2" formats.   

[tuff_u_gong]

nice pic edboy. the only open reel player brand i've seen played is revox.

btw, i forgot to answer the original question asked at the beginning of this thread.

i sold my cdp about 1 1/2 years ago and was purely into vinyl for more than a year.
i recently got a good deal on a tube non-oversampling DA converter for
my CDs with my pioneer dvd player serving as transport. so i'm using both media.

80%/20% i listen in favor of my LP records.

as for digital becoming the format of the future. yes, i agree. 

but i bet brand new vinyl and turntableswill still be produced for a good 15 years more.
that's still a lot of time to listen. 

which leads me to quote my favorite economist: J.M. Keynes who
is famous for saying : "In the long run, we're all dead" - .

by the year 2040, my ears will no longer be as critical as they are today. so i'd
rather enjoy records in the next decade or so.

[Garp]

I have both. I find both have their merits so I guess that makes me an ANAL fan. Uggh

[shuttertrigger]

Pareho rin para sa akin..

pero sabi ng tatay at nanay ko, mas gusto raw nila yung plaka.. bakit kaya? 

[Daemon_Seraphim]

I have a few questions...

Let's say you have a Harman Kardon 335 AVR and the accompanying 5.1 speakers e.g.( Monitor Audio)

I want to play movies (HT) - i use the existing setup of 5.1.

But what if I want to play stereo sound / music e.g. (audio cd's) - what do i use..how would i setup stereo sound using the existing equipment?
  1. do i need additional amps? Forgive my ignorance but I just want clarifications and I want to learn.
  2. Do i need to buy vinyl LP's or any other equipment?

If you can give me some insights or links to read on, i would appreciate it.

[s2kov]

just set the AVR to stereo mode and select CD input if you connect you're cdp to CD input !