Author Topic: The War Begins... (Read 106937 times)

slowhand · « **Reply #120 on:** Jun 15, 2006 at 05:34 PM »

Reports from the States say the first Blu-Ray Hi-Def DVD player the Samsung BD-P1000 has been seen at Best Buy stores.

Along with the following movies…

The Fifth Element
XXX
Hitch
House of Flying Daggers
The Terminator

The Sony BDP-S1 is scheduled to release on, or around August 15, and the Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 has been pushed back to September.

GM · « **Reply #121 on:** Jun 21, 2006 at 06:08 AM »

I grabbed the RCA HDV5000 HD-DVD Player last weekend (can't find Tosh HDA1 anywhere). It's basically the same hardware innards as Toshiba HD-A1. I've seen the Sammy BD-P1000 at BB last weekend and though I wanted to try it out, I can't shell $999 for that player

First impressions: The player is freakinly slow to bootup(just like what the others have experienced). I've read about this at avsforum(and here) but I never thought that it would be that slow(around 30-35 seconds). I'm pretty used to almost instant-on of my Sammy upscaler. I tried Serenity and Jarhead HD-DVDs (I have the DVD versions). You can see PQ difference (my display is a 50" plasma) but not that drastic(DVD is upscaled to 720p, HD-DVD is running in the same resolution as well). there's a 1.3 firmware available for Tosh and I read that it can be used on RCA, so what the heck, I flashed my RCA and now, its Tosh branded

No dramatic difference on my part, boot up speeds up a little (now its just around 20-30 secs tops)

i'm surprised on the number of titles that are currently available in HD-DVD format. I expected to see like less than 15 titles but right now, I have more than 10 in my Netflix queue(some of which were new releases like 16 blocks and Firewall) and it looks like a lot more is coming

baby · « **Reply #122 on:** Jun 21, 2006 at 06:38 AM »

Quote from: GM on Jun 21, 2006 at 06:08 AM

I grabbed the RCA HDV5000 HD-DVD Player last weekend (can't find Tosh HDA1 anywhere). It's basically the same hardware innards as Toshiba HD-A1. I've seen the Sammy BD-P1000 at BB last weekend and though I wanted to try it out, I can't shell $999 for that player

First impressions: The player is freakinly slow to bootup(just like what the others have experienced). I've read about this at avsforum(and here) but I never thought that it would be that slow(around 30-35 seconds). I'm pretty used to almost instant-on of my Sammy upscaler. I tried Serenity and Jarhead HD-DVDs (I have the DVD versions). You can see PQ difference (my display is a 50" plasma) but not that drastic(DVD is upscaled to 720p, HD-DVD is running in the same resolution as well). there's a 1.3 firmware available for Tosh and I read that it can be used on RCA, so what the heck, I flashed my RCA and now, its Tosh branded No dramatic difference on my part, boot up speeds up a little (now its just around 20-30 secs tops)

i'm surprised on the number of titles that are currently available in HD-DVD format. I expected to see like less than 15 titles but right now, I have more than 10 in my Netflix queue(some of which were new releases like 16 blocks and Firewall) and it looks like a lot more is coming

thanks for sharing bro. We're still waiting here for the release of BD and HD-DVD. Good thing it wasn't release here the same date as in the states. At least we have a chance to copare , select and even look through the different reactions in different forums. Congrats btw on your new toy.

Munskie · « **Reply #123 on:** Jun 21, 2006 at 07:36 AM »

Funny the blu-ray discs were released earlier than the player. Early blu-ray adopters have all the time to read the inserts!!

baby · « **Reply #124 on:** Jun 21, 2006 at 07:40 AM »

Quote from: Munskie on Jun 21, 2006 at 07:36 AM

Funny the blu-ray discs were released earlier than the player. Early blu-ray adopters have all the time to read the inserts!!

OO nga.

Or take them to their friends house to show off.

pchin · « **Reply #125 on:** Jun 21, 2006 at 07:25 PM »

he he

Maybe BD actually means "Best Delay"

classicman · « **Reply #126 on:** Jun 22, 2006 at 08:43 AM »

not an auspicious debut for Blu-ray either.......here's an initial review from thedigitalbits:

"Well... I've had my first experience with Blu-ray Disc, and Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. For the record, I have four titles on hand... The Fifth Element and The Terminator (from Sony and MGM) and Lord of War and Crash (from Lionsgate).

You know how I keep saying that these formats are being rushed to market about a year before they're ready? And you recall how hard I was on the HD-DVD camp for their klutzy launch and buggy hardware? And you know how I said that Blu-ray Disc looked like the superior format, at least on paper? Well... unfortunately, the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch too. Every bit as klutzy as HD-DVD. Think Clark Kent klutzy, or Gerald Ford klutzy, or Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford klutzy.

Let's start with the Samsung player. Nice box, nice packaging. You pull the BD-P1000 out of said packaging and it looks pretty badass. Love the lines. It's a much nicer looking player than Toshiba's HD-A1, though it's lighter and feels a little less solid. The BD-P1000's remote is nicer too... not backlit unfortunately, but it feels better in your hand and the buttons are laid out more conveniently.

Connection via HDMI is pretty easy. You fire the BD-P1000 up and the first thing you notice is a sexy blue glow from the various openings on the player. Nice... except I have yet to find a dimmer. And it's just a little too bright, you know? Anyway... the player fires up very quickly. You get a welcome screen within about 5 seconds of power-on. BIG improvement over the Tosh HD-DVD player. You can load a disc after less then 30 seconds, also an improvement over the Tosh. I also like that when it's loading or thinking, you get a little onscreen icon to let you know, rather than just nothing. At least you feel like the thing is doing something. For whatever reason, the player defaults to 720p output via HDMI... you have to go into the setup menu to select 1080i. Okay, so that's what I did.

Now it's time to look at my first Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, my hand swerved towards The Fifth Element. The title was an amazing bit of reference work on standard DVD, and that Superbit version was awesome. Obvious choice, right? Should look amazing in HD. Yeah... it should. But it doesn't. In fact... I'm not going to come out and say it looks like crap, but it is easily the worst looking high-definition title I've seen yet, and I've seen 30+ titles now. The image is muddy looking, lacking in crisp, clean detail. The colors don't quite pop off the screen like they should. Just a mess. Okay... I will say it. It looks like crap. Sony should never have released this title like this. In fact, they should be embarrassed about this disc. Seriously, if you compare the upscaled Superbit standard-definition DVD to this, the Blu-ray Disc looks only marginally better. This should have been a reference title in high-def and it's not even in the ball park. My brow furrowed in troubled surprise at this point. Wow... and not the good kind.

Next, I tried The Terminator. A big improvement. This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used. The disc is very good looking, but not blow-you-away good. In any case, this is probably not the best title to test the video quality of Blu-ray Disc, so let's move on.

Now these two Lionsgate titles... they're much better looking. Crash and Lord of War have significantly improved clarity, crisp yet clean detail, vibrant color... they're much more like what I expected Blu-ray Disc would look like. Both have a more film-like image. And yet...

There are some problems I'm seeing right away with all of the Blu-ray Disc titles on the BD-P1000. First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. I also don't see anything like this on the Toshiba HD-A1 at any resolution, so this is specific to THIS player, which may be why Samsung ships it with 720p set by default. Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second. You notice it most when the images on screen are moving quickly, or when the camera is panning. It may be that this issue is related to the first. Still trying to figure out what I'm seeing here. Lionsgate's Lord of War was the title where I noticed it first, and I'll have to check them all before knowing whether it's just this title or all of the discs. Again, it's not something I've seen on any HD-DVD titles thus far.

By the way, I haven't tested the Samsung's standard DVD upconversion capability to any real degree yet. Just FYI.

If I had to compare my initial impressions of Blu-ray Disc to those of HD-DVD... well, I certainly need to see more Blu-ray titles and spend more time with the player. I'm really just giving you my initial, off-the-cuff comments, based on less than 10 hours of viewing time with the Samsung. It's worth noting that we've only seen one player for each format, so it's hard to say what issues are specifically related to the players, and what are format related. But right now... I think I may end up giving Round One of this format war to HD-DVD, and that surprises the hell out of me. Sure, that Tosh HD-DVD player was a lemon until the firmware upgrade, but it's worked like a charm since. And the first 25 or so HD-DVD discs I've viewed just look better overall than the first 4 Blu-ray Discs I've seen. The HD-DVDs also have a LOT more extra features than the Blu-ray Discs (even if you consider that most of the extras are recycled from standard DVD). For the record, Terminator on Blu-ray has 7 deleted scenes and 2 featurettes, recycled from standard DVD. Fifth Element has a pop-up trivia track, again from the standard DVD. The Lionsgate titles have nothing. I keep hearing these comments (both official and unofficial) from Blu-ray execs saying that they're leaving off the extras so they can give all the extra disc space over to the best video quality possible. Which tells me that Blu-ray is having major disc space problems. I've heard from more than a few industry sources that Blu-ray is having trouble getting the dual-layered BD media to work, which means that discs with lots of extras and good video quality aren't an option now. It also means that longer movies aren't an option now either. Both are problems for this format that don't seem to be troubling HD-DVD at the moment - at least not at first glance, based on the initial title offering.

What all of this goes to prove, of course, is just what I've been saying all along: These formats are being rushed to market before they're ready. And it also proves that the best option for the vast majority of you out there is just to save your money. Don't even bother with Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD for at least a year, because there are significant bugs to be worked out yet. Wait until better hardware and software is available at a better price, and the early adopter types have dealt with the problems and getting the manufacturers and studios to fix them. Anyway, I'll have more to say about Blu-ray Disc and the Samsung player in the next few days, as I spend a little more time with it. But so far, I'm less than impressed."

jojitv · « **Reply #127 on:** Jun 27, 2006 at 06:56 AM »

from Yahoo! news

Blu-ray vs. HD DVD--Which Has the Early Edge?

There will not be differences in image quality between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc movie content. Expect it to be tough to isolate which format is superior for delivering video, given the number of variables that come into play--including choices in the video codec, bit rate, and encoder used, not to mention whether you're viewing the output over analog or HDMI, on a display capable of 1080i or 1080p. There will be subtle differences. Sony plans to encode its first generation of discs in MPEG-2, while Warner and Universal's HD DVDs are using the VC-1 or MPEG-4 AVC codec. RCA's and Toshiba's HD DVD players output at 1080i (even though the movie discs are 1080p), while the first Blu-ray players from Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony all output at 1080p.

For more details, click here

dagul27 · « **Reply #128 on:** Jun 28, 2006 at 09:07 AM »

Went to a Sony store awhile ago and they had a blue ray player connected to a 60" SXRD RPTV.All i can say is

! I saw a demo of Underworld:Evolution,Ultraviolet,Click and Narnia.Time to save up for a new HT setup.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #129 on:** Jun 28, 2006 at 06:23 PM »

Just dawned on me me that the video industry seems to be repeating the mistakes that the audio industry made. I am referring to the high-end rift between DVD-A and SACD which ensured neither of them could succeed in supplanting the CD as the digital audio standard. Now they are doing the same for high end high resolution video that is targetted to replace DVD. And so far the reviews for either camp is anything but flattering.

dagul27 · « **Reply #130 on:** Jun 28, 2006 at 10:06 PM »

I'd still go for blue ray though since it has support for 1080p resolution.By the time i've saved enough for a 1080p capable TV probably in a couple of years,everything should clear up.I was leaning towards getting an HD-DVD drive for my XBOX 360 when it comes out but after seeing Underworld:Evolution in 1080p,man that demo just blowed me away.

GM · « **Reply #131 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 07:15 AM »

HD-DVD players will eventually support 1080p (first gen HD-DVD players may contain updated firmware to support 1080p output). contents for both BD and HD-DVD are encoded in 1080p/24, so that leaves to the player and the display to handle the resolution.

Munskie · « **Reply #132 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 07:34 AM »

maybe in a year or two from now...we'll have a clearer picture who'll survive the format war...

MAtZTER · « **Reply #133 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 09:45 AM »

Quote from: Munskie on Jun 29, 2006 at 07:34 AM

maybe in a year or two from now...we'll have a clearer picture who'll survive the format war...

So lets all enjoy our DVDs for the next year or two

. Para sulit

av_phile1 · « **Reply #134 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 10:28 AM »

Quote from: GM on Jun 29, 2006 at 07:15 AM

HD-DVD players will eventually support 1080p (first gen HD-DVD players may contain updated firmware to support 1080p output). contents for both BD and HD-DVD are encoded in 1080p/24, so that leaves to the player and the display to handle the resolution.

Read from one internet article that if your display can upconvert to 1080p, a player that outputs just 1080i is sufficient. 1080i contains ALL the video information to make it progressive in the upconversion process so nothing is lost.

slowhand · « **Reply #135 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 11:10 AM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Jun 28, 2006 at 06:23 PM

Just dawned on me me that the video industry seems to be repeating the mistakes that the audio industry made. I am referring to the high-end rift between DVD-A and SACD which ensured neither of them could succeed in supplanting the CD as the digital audio standard.

"In the war between DVD-A and SACD, the winner is...the iPod." - Bob Stuart, Meridian, creator of MLP

If we use this analogy pala, in the war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, the winner will be...BitTorrent.

dagul27 · « **Reply #136 on:** Jun 29, 2006 at 09:26 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Jun 29, 2006 at 10:28 AM

Read from one internet article that if your display can upconvert to 1080p, a player that outputs just 1080i is sufficient. 1080i contains ALL the video information to make it progressive in the upconversion process so nothing is lost.

Yup,actually only a handful of 1080p marketed HDTVs has the capability of accepting true 1080p signals without having to upconvert.One of them is HP's MD6580n.Samsung,Mitsubishi and Westinghouse have units that can accept true 1080p signals through their computer inputs.

bachwitz · « **Reply #137 on:** Jun 30, 2006 at 12:09 PM »

Quote from: dagul27 on Jun 28, 2006 at 09:07 AM

Went to a Sony store awhile ago and they had a blue ray player connected to a 60\" SXRD RPTV.All i can say is ! I saw a demo of Underworld:Evolution,Ultraviolet,Click and Narnia.Time to save up for a new HT setup.

Which Sony store sir, if you dont mind?

dagul27 · « **Reply #138 on:** Jun 30, 2006 at 07:46 PM »

Quote from: bachwitz on Jun 30, 2006 at 12:09 PM

Which Sony store sir, if you dont mind?

I'm here in the U.S. Chicago area, Schaumburg Woodfield Mall.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #139 on:** Jul 04, 2006 at 05:17 PM »

To those who already have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players, how do you connect the player audio to the receiver. Do you use analog, S/PDIF or HDMI connection? There are no receivers on earth that can yet decode DD+, HD-DTS and Dolby TrueHD. So how?

The HD-DVD players I hear, like the Tosh, downconvert these to DTS streams so you can use current receivers. But this is a degradation of the high resolution sonics promised by the new formats.

bachwitz · « **Reply #140 on:** Jul 04, 2006 at 05:53 PM »

Quote from: dagul27 on Jun 30, 2006 at 07:46 PM

I\'m here in the U.S. Chicago area, Schaumburg Woodfield Mall.

yikes. akala ko nasa pinas ka sir. he he he. I went to a sony store here yesterday. kaya pala wala ako makita. he he he.

Jude · « **Reply #141 on:** Jul 13, 2006 at 11:14 PM »

I've been avidly following the developments of the format war and HD-DVD is currently kicking Blu-ray's ass in almost every aspect: pricing, picture quality, and content. HD DVD players and discs are outselling Blu-ray players and discs by a huge margin, it's been getting difficult to find the players in stock since they're almost always sold out. The number of people returning their Blu-ray players has gotten so bad that retailer Best Buy has cut in half their usual 30 day return period to only 15 days (plus they charge you a 15% re-stocking fee) just for the Blu-ray player.

Here's an article from ProjectorCentral that pretty much sums things up.

Hi folks,

Many of you are closely watching developments in the face-off between HD-DVD and Blu-ray, the two competing high definition formats representing the future of disc-based digital video storage and playback. We have been experimenting with both formats since they were released, and have formulated some initial impressions, as follows:

HD-DVD as a format is performing beautifully. ProjectorCentral enthusiastically endorses HD-DVD for anyone who wants to experience a major step forward in video quality for a nominal cost. The Toshiba HD-A1 player is slower to load that anyone would like, and the non-backlit remote is difficult to get used to. But the picture is worth suffering through these quirks. HD-DVD represents a dramatic improvement in picture quality, and for $500 there is simply nothing else like it.

Blu-ray is, as of this moment, not as impressive. It delivers a noticeable improvement in image quality over standard DVD, but the difference is not as dramatic as HD-DVD. We believe that this is a short term problem related to the fact that Blu-ray discs are not yet being manufactured in their dual-layer, 50 GB configuration. With only one layer available, the maximum capacity of a Blu-ray disc is 25 GB, compared to 30 GB on the HD-DVD. Furthermore, the Blu-ray discs that have been release thus far are in MPEG-2, which is an old and inefficient video codec. The combined limitations of MPEG-2 and 25 GB of storage translate into a less than ideal image on the screen. HD-DVD's current storage capacity of 30 GB plus the use of the more efficient VC-1 codec produces a much more dramatic HD image. So we have the odd spectacle of the $500 HD-DVD player actually outperforming the $1000 Blu-ray player.

We believe Blu-ray's defects will be resolved and that eventually the image quality of Blu-ray will match that of HD-DVD. However, there is no reason to expect that Blu-ray will ever exceed the quality of HD-DVD. Contrary to widespread rumor, both formats will contain transfers of films in 1080p/24 resolution. As noted in an earlier article, the actual transmission of the signal in 1080i vs. 1080p is not going to produce any visible differences in image quality to the vast majority of users.

Munskie · « **Reply #142 on:** Jul 14, 2006 at 08:00 AM »

I say ROUND ONE TO HD DVD. Blu-ray's hasty introduction comes up short and unprepared.

an article from HD Digest: BLU-RAY VS. HD DVD: ROUND ONE (click)

pchin · « **Reply #143 on:** Jul 14, 2006 at 09:06 AM »

Nice article Munskie....I agree with the report

Congrat to HD DVD on round one!

bayonic · « **Reply #144 on:** Jul 14, 2006 at 10:17 AM »

any ideas on when either players will be available for demo in Manila ?

or baka naman may PinoyDVD member dyan na pwedeng mag pa demo

?

Munskie · « **Reply #145 on:** Jul 14, 2006 at 10:47 AM »

Quote from: pchin on Jul 14, 2006 at 09:06 AM

Nice article Munskie....I agree with the report

Congrat to HD DVD on round one!

By ROUND TWO or yearend, where there will be numerous releases of HD DVD and BLU-RAY titles, we will have a more clearer picture who goes ahead. The release of Blu-ray equipped PS3 and 2nd wave of players(which I hope will be a lot better in terms of audio/video output, connectivity, functionality, efficiency and price) will also be determining factors in the race.

If one format goes way ahead of the other, it will be easier for studios to cross the line and support the leading format...

By that time I guess, upgrading will be an easier decision.

pchin · « **Reply #146 on:** Jul 15, 2006 at 09:50 AM »

That's right. As for the PS3, the first gen could suffer similar bugs, etc. So it's safer to wait at least a year or two until the tech matures & all bugs are iron out.

All good things come to those who are patient

Munskie · « **Reply #147 on:** Jul 18, 2006 at 09:37 AM »

Some more war news....

HD DVD backers to Launch $150 million Ad Campaign (click)

It will feature a home theater truck......hehehe sana dito meron din...

which i doubt

av_phile1 · « **Reply #148 on:** Jul 18, 2006 at 11:52 AM »

Quote from: pchin on Jul 15, 2006 at 09:50 AM

That's right. As for the PS3, the first gen could suffer similar bugs, etc. So it's safer to wait at least a year or two until the tech matures & all bugs are iron out.

All good things come to those who are patient

Very true.

I am just a little uncomfortable about SONY banking on the success of its Blu-Ray to the PS3. As if the psychographic and demographic profiles of the gaming market is the same as that of the high-definition HT market. PS2 consoles also play DVDs, but I doubt if HT afficionados put the PS2 at the heart of their HT racks. HT addicts who are gamers probably do. But even so, I am almost certain they also have a dedicated DVD player among the racks.

The PS3 when it arrives will be the most expensive game console ever. I am sure serious game addicts will not find that a problem. The PS3 will be bought because of its games, assuming there'd be killer games meant to max the blu-ray format. But I doubt if people will buy it because of its HD abilities. Perhaps, it could if other Blu-ray players continue to be $500 pricier than HD-DVD players. But when it arrives Christams 2006, with HD-DVD taking firmer market root, HD-DVD player prices could start to plummet to below $300. And SONY's argument will just fall apart.

SONY did learn from its Betamax experience. They bought MGM and Columbia/tristar pictures. And promptly embarked on another marketing war to dictate on the market what it should buy. The hell with industry cooperation. If only for this, I want them to eat the same dust they did with the betamax fiasco.

But don't get me wrong, i'm no SONY basher. I like their Bravia LCDs, have a Sony jap surplus TV and use SonyEriccson cellphones.

jojitv · « **Reply #149 on:** Jul 19, 2006 at 09:51 AM »

Disney Pushes Blu-ray Bar $:-\$

excerpts from the article

...“These are incredibly exciting times, since we are in an era where the consumer has growing control over the delivery of their entertainment choices, including packaged media,” Chapek said. “We are confident that the Blu-ray Disc will be the high-definition choice for the home entertainment future.”

Buena Vista’s expected announcement will make it the fourth studio to announce titles and release dates for Blu-ray, tipping the scale in favor of the Sony-developed format. Warner Home Video weighed in last week with four titles (see story, page 14), while Sony Pictures Home Entertainment and Lionsgate have both been releasing product since late June.