Author Topic: My dream theater  (Read 400125 times)

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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1650 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 12:42 PM »
Hi Mark, does the sound quality default to the less capable sub/s (Although both svs and paradigm are very much capable, I'm sure)? Like what happened to Jay2's setup: the velodyne was affecting the performance such that when we removed it from the setup, the performance of just the dual pb13 ultras was much better despite having 1 less sub in the configuration?

Kung baga, in terms of LFE extension, does the Paradigm hold back the SVS, and does the SVS affect the musical quality of the Paradigm? In other words, what is the effect, whether positive or negative, of mixing 2 very different sets of subs?

Do I make sense? hehe  

Hi Arn. Yes, you make sense.

I think the answer also depends on whether or not you are using some form of room correction for the bass, similar to the SVS AS-EQ1 (which both Jay2 and I have).

Let’s say that you have 2 subs with dissimilar characteristics – Sub1 goes down to 16 Hz while Sub2 goes down to 24 Hz – and you send the same signal to the 2 subs, using a Y-cable. Both subs will be reproducing the same signal but for signals from 18 to 24 Hz, only Sub1 will be heard. That means that the SPL will be cut in half for those signals. You’ll still be able to hear the deep bass but it will be softer and have less impact.

Next, let’s assume that Sub1 has a flat frequency response (accurate) while the frequency response of Sub2 jumps all over the place. You will get an average response quality that is in-between the 2 subs.

Now, if you use an SVS AS-EQ1, you complicate things. When it “listens” to the 2 subs together, it may think that the lower limit of their combined capability is only 24 Hz (the weaker sub). From what I know, the EQ1 may apply a high-pass filter at 24 Hz, thus effectively removing the 18 to 24 Hz response of Sub1. I think this is exactly what happened in the case of Jay2. He had 2 SVS Ultras with a y-cable and therefore seen as one sub while the Velo CHT-15 had no y-cable so it was also seen as a single sub. No matter how capable the 2 Ultras were, their performance was severely downgraded by the Velo.
   
The Paradigm Servo-15 v2 can go down to 20 Hz and its frequency response is very flat. The SVS PB12-NSD can go down to 18 Hz and also has a flat FR. The performance is not very different. The fact is that in my system, with only 2 Paradigms, the bass extension does not go as deep as when they are combined with the SVS subs while I could not perceive a serious degradation in bass quality (the presence of the SVS AS-EQ1 also helped out because it flattens the frequency response curve and reduces “ringing” and I think it also helped that I "corner-loaded" the 2 Paradigms).

I guess the lesson is that you should only combine subs which have similar characteristics. Having said this, if you already have 2 dissimilar subs, there is no harm in trying them out together. Who knows? There are a lot of theories in audio but the ultimate proof is actually trying things out.
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Offline XXXyzledge

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1651 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 12:44 PM »
wow!

congrats on ur 2nd SVS sir mark!!!

ganda cguro lalo DDD dyan!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Cayin, RS1, Velo, QED, Bada         Sony4K, HK, B&W, SVS, Oppo, LaZboy....

Offline praktikal

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1652 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 01:30 PM »
Thanks, guys!

@Gaol, yes, I am now running 2 x Paradigm Servo-15 v.2's and 2 x SVS PB-12 NSD. The Paradigm has its own advantages - its a sealed sub and let's just say that it's more accurate, especially with music material. However, each Paradigm costs much more than even the SVS PB-13 Ultra and they don't go below 20 Hz. That's why I say that the SVS subs are "value for money".

@Onkyo606, next time na EB. Yes, improvements in this hobby are actually endless. The important thing is to research well and be honest to yourself. Don't fool yourself into thinking that this beautiful new "whatever" will improve your system. Study it carefully and if possible, test it with a friend. That's why I spent more than 5 hours optimizing the new sub before I could say that it had truly made an improvement in my system.

@Stagea, nope, I've retired my Velo HGS-15 ... unless someone wants to buy it.

magkano daw sabi ng friend ko sir Mark?  :)

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1653 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 01:41 PM »
wow!

congrats on ur 2nd SVS sir mark!!!

ganda cguro lalo DDD dyan!!!  ;D ;D ;D

TBH, konti lang ang deep bass dun. Deep throat lang yata.  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1654 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 01:42 PM »
magkano daw sabi ng friend ko sir Mark?  :)

wala pa offer. still waiting.  ;D ;D
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Online gaol

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1655 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 02:00 PM »
Hi Arn. Yes, you make sense.

I think the answer also depends on whether or not you are using some form of room correction for the bass, similar to the SVS AS-EQ1 (which both Jay2 and I have).

Let’s say that you have 2 subs with dissimilar characteristics – Sub1 goes down to 16 Hz while Sub2 goes down to 24 Hz – and you send the same signal to the 2 subs, using a Y-cable. Both subs will be reproducing the same signal but for signals from 18 to 24 Hz, only Sub1 will be heard. That means that the SPL will be cut in half for those signals. You’ll still be able to hear the deep bass but it will be softer and have less impact.

Next, let’s assume that Sub1 has a flat frequency response (accurate) while the frequency response of Sub2 jumps all over the place. You will get an average response quality that is in-between the 2 subs.

Now, if you use an SVS AS-EQ1, you complicate things. When it “listens” to the 2 subs together, it may think that the lower limit of their combined capability is only 24 Hz (the weaker sub). From what I know, the EQ1 may apply a high-pass filter at 24 Hz, thus effectively removing the 18 to 24 Hz response of Sub1. I think this is exactly what happened in the case of Jay2. He had 2 SVS Ultras with a y-cable and therefore seen as one sub while the Velo CHT-15 had no y-cable so it was also seen as a single sub. No matter how capable the 2 Ultras were, their performance was severely downgraded by the Velo.
   
The Paradigm Servo-15 v2 can go down to 20 Hz and its frequency response is very flat. The SVS PB12-NSD can go down to 18 Hz and also has a flat FR. The performance is not very different. The fact is that in my system, with only 2 Paradigms, the bass extension does not go as deep as when they are combined with the SVS subs while I could not perceive a serious degradation in bass quality (the presence of the SVS AS-EQ1 also helped out because it flattens the frequency response curve and reduces “ringing” and I think it also helped that I "corner-loaded" the 2 Paradigms).

I guess the lesson is that you should only combine subs which have similar characteristics. Having said this, if you already have 2 dissimilar subs, there is no harm in trying them out together. Who knows? There are a lot of theories in audio but the ultimate proof is actually trying things out.

Thanks, Mark, for the detailed explanation. I think I get it. If I'm not mistaken, you've got the best balance of the two similar and yet slightly different subs, so there would be no need to go all 4 SVS, or all 4 Paradigm (budget permitting of course, hehe) for that matter. Tama ba?  ;) :D :D Or is this an intermediate move to all SVS? hehehe

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1656 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 02:16 PM »
Thanks, Mark, for the detailed explanation. I think I get it. If I'm not mistaken, you've got the best balance of the two similar and yet slightly different subs, so there would be no need to go all 4 SVS, or all 4 Paradigm (budget permitting of course, hehe) for that matter. Tama ba?  ;) :D :D Or is this an intermediate move to all SVS? hehehe

I think that I have a good balance between the qualities of the 2 subs. Mike C is actually correct that the best would be 4 Paradigms and 4 SVS subs but that would be insanely expensive and I don't think it would be worth it.

Before I would do that, I'd rather spend the same amount to upgrade my main speakers. I think that improvement would be much more noticeable.  :)
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Offline praktikal

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1657 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 02:24 PM »
I think that I have a good balance between the qualities of the 2 subs. Mike C is actually correct that the best would be 4 Paradigms and 4 SVS subs but that would be insanely expensive and I don't think it would be worth it.

Before I would do that, I'd rather spend the same amount to upgrade my main speakers. I think that improvement would be much more noticeable.  :)

+1

paano ang layout, both svs near side wall and twin paradigm sa inner?

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1658 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 02:33 PM »
paano ang layout, both svs near side wall and twin paradigm sa inner?

Nope. Each paradigm is at a corner, so as to boost their SPL and get deeper extension. Then 1 SVS beside each Paradigm.
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Offline macdon

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1659 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 06:29 PM »
Congrats on the new sub Mark!  ;)

Offline Stagea

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1660 on: Aug 31, 2010 at 10:50 PM »
@Stagea, nope, I've retired my Velo HGS-15 ... unless someone wants to buy it.

Nice. Ang swerte naman ng makakakuha nito. :)

Offline dts-HD 3D

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1661 on: Sep 02, 2010 at 06:30 PM »

4some na sila sir Mark . . . congrats sa PB12!

Offline John E.

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1662 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 06:17 AM »
congrats! can't wait to see it! :P
You'll Always Go Back To This Hobby!

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1663 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 07:19 AM »
congrats! can't wait to see it! :P

Ber months na. Lapit na pasko.  ;D ;D
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Offline blackie

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1664 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 03:22 PM »
Panasonic/Denon/Wharfedale/M&K/Pioneer

Offline ryn0128

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1665 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 03:26 PM »

Offline blackie

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1666 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 06:05 PM »

kaya handa mo na tuhod mo sir!

Will bring red wine para iwas gout....
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Offline nogie

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1667 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 09:04 PM »
sana by December meron na rin ako PB12. :'( Congrats sir Mark!  ;)

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1668 on: Sep 03, 2010 at 11:00 PM »
sana by December meron na rin ako PB12. :'( Congrats sir Mark!  ;)

ang magagawa ngayon, wag ng ipag december pa

wag ng mag patumpik tumpik pa. ;)
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Offline ninjababez®

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1669 on: Sep 05, 2010 at 02:54 PM »
ninjababez online ..

Offline vtec3

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1670 on: Sep 06, 2010 at 08:46 PM »
Sir Mark mayron na naman pala bago dito  :o mayron ulit bagong experience sa dadating na Christmas EB  ;D

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1671 on: Sep 06, 2010 at 11:41 PM »
Sir Mark mayron na naman pala bago dito  :o mayron ulit bagong experience sa dadating na Christmas EB  ;D

sa xmas pa ba, wala bang bago mag xmas hehehehehe
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1672 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 07:13 AM »
sa xmas pa ba, wala bang bago mag xmas hehehehehe

Meron nga akong plano pero pinag-iisipan ko pa. VideoEQ Pro.
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Offline macdon

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1673 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 09:55 AM »
So paano sir Mark - eh di may extra subwoofer ka jan ngayon, diba?

Tupayb nalang sa akin yan :D ;D joke, joke ;D

Offline Weng!

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1674 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 10:05 AM »
So paano sir Mark - eh di may extra subwoofer ka jan ngayon, diba?

Tupayb nalang sa akin yan :D ;D joke, joke ;D

brader mac, sakto may extra velo si sir mark. that will surely mate with your sms-1 ;D gawin mo nalang na 2nd sub ang halimaw just in case na ma repair ang driver or you can find a new w6 ;D

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1675 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 10:11 AM »
Meron nga akong plano pero pinag-iisipan ko pa. VideoEQ Pro.

ayun oh, ayosssssss, see you soon sir mark ;)
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1676 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 12:12 PM »
So paano sir Mark - eh di may extra subwoofer ka jan ngayon, diba?

Tupayb nalang sa akin yan :D ;D joke, joke ;D

Give me an offer. Basta ikaw, friendly deal!  :)
No room acoustic treatment is like running a Ferrari on ice.

Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1677 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 01:56 PM »
Give me an offer. Basta ikaw, friendly deal!  :)

yun oh...

wag ng mag patumpik tumpik pa kagawad mac, banat na agad ;D ;D ;D
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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1678 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 02:16 PM »
Give me an offer. Basta ikaw, friendly deal!  :)

Aba aba sobrang bargain yan! Kunin na hwag nang maghintay ng pasko, tutal BER month na ang septemBER! hehehe ;D

Offline macdon

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Re: My dream theater - another SVS sub
« Reply #1679 on: Sep 07, 2010 at 03:13 PM »
Give me an offer. Basta ikaw, friendly deal!  :)

Nakaka excite naman nyan sir Mark!  :o Naihi ako sa pantalon ko ah  ;D