Author Topic: SD vs BD vs Downloads  (Read 51687 times)

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Offline juanch

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #90 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:04 AM »
O sa sunod na shootout eto naman ang agenda: Hulaan kung DVD, Dibidi o Torrent file ang pinapalabas sa 14 inch TV ;D

Let your eyes decide...

Patay na tayo dyan  ;D

Offline iiinas

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #91 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:14 AM »
O sa sunod na shootout eto naman ang agenda: Hulaan kung DVD, Dibidi o Torrent file ang pinapalabas sa 14 inch TV ;D

Let your eyes decide...

hahaha ayos ito doc!

Offline iiinas

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #92 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:20 AM »
saya ng eb, lalo na yung resulta! its really surprising!!!

post na sir mark!  ;D ;D ;D

glad i was the amuyong during the shootout, ang hirap nung truhd and dd test. listening to the materials in sir mark's ht was really difficult to discern between the two. sa ganda ng set up parang pareho lang talaga.

kaya kudos to sir waxx and alvinh, "the men with the golden ears"  ;D

Offline JAQY888

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #93 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:35 AM »
tama ..... abangan natin ang pag-post ng results ni bro. Mark ....  :D
hirap talagang ma-distinguish yung true HD at DD .... or baka naman talagang may tutuli tayo gaya ng sinabi ni bro. Mark ..... hehehehhe .....

It was a blast guys ...... sa uulitin .....  ;D ;D ;D
.... at malamang may mangunguna pag-upo sa "sweet spot"  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
50pv70;AX200E
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Offline Moks007

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #94 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 09:36 AM »
saya ng eb, lalo na yung resulta! its really surprising!!!

post na sir mark!  ;D ;D ;D

glad i was the amuyong during the shootout, ang hirap nung truhd and dd test. listening to the materials in sir mark's ht was really difficult to discern between the two. sa ganda ng set up parang pareho lang talaga.

kaya kudos to sir waxx and alvinh, "the men with the golden ears"  ;D

hehe.. Sana suggestion, we should have used transformers bd..Sa end where there are battles and explosions, maybe it will be more evident. But chicago was already great test..Sana we compared also hddvd transformers dd+ and BD's transformers truehd. For those reviewers (hidef digest and others) saying there is just whopping diff. I doubt it. They are probably just promoting bd ::)
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 09:39 AM by Moks007 »

Offline XXXyzledge

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #95 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 09:45 AM »
great experience being part of this blind testing!
greater experience yung ma-meet 30 pdvd members yesterday!
greatest experience yung manood sa HT setup ni bro Mark! especially yung...TOOT... hehehehehe... ;D

dito ba popost yung results?
Cayin, RS1, Velo, QED, Bada         Sony4K, HK, B&W, SVS, Oppo, LaZboy....

Offline Clondalkin

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #96 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:23 AM »
Hindi kaya isa sa 30 participants si Christian Sy?   ;D ;D ;D

Offline revskie

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #97 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:37 AM »
I am still intrigued by the results of the audio test yesterday.

I understand that our "Golden Eared" boys Waxx and AlvinH made perfect scores!

I also overheard Sir Mark saying that there were those who scored bokya!

Now this made me think statistically......

There were six samples of audio tracks presented.

What I think is that those who made perferct scores and bokya have spot on ears (i would defer to use the term golden) that were able to sonically tell the difference between the six sample tracks!

Get my drift?

It was all a question of what was their preference....Did the DD clip sounded better than the True HD?  Or was it the other way around?

Unlike video where we have objective parameters such as jaggies, contrast, detail and other video artifacts, audio is purely subjective on a reference audio rig.  There are no basis EXCEPT how your ears picked up the sound and how your brain processed the information and made you decide which is better.

Mind you, we all have different ears, assorted levels of tutule accumulation and unique brain processing capability.  That characters are yours and yours alone which makes the audio experience truly unique and personal.  That is the beauty of critical audio listening.

Again statistically speaking,  those that were in the 40% to 60% margin of error were those that did not know (or were having a hard time distinguishing) the DD tracks from the True HD clips ....In my opinion, those that were on both the far end of the spectrum (perfect and bokya scores) were the ones that have spot on ears (again i defer to use the term golden  ;D) that were able to aurally tell the difference between clips.

It was all a matter of which clip sounded better to them.

My sixty cents on the matter.

Kaya sir mark, post mo na din yung mga bokya!  Hats off din ako sa kanila!

Rev
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:11 AM by revskie »

Offline revskie

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #98 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:00 AM »
Thanks Brader Jazz!

Which made me think of those jeepney boomboxes during my college days where the jeepney drivers play their music with so much LFE that they pound your chest and so much tweet that they pierce your ears!

And all the pasajeros are nodding their head enjoying the sonic experience while travelling to their intended destinations!

A perfect analogy I guess.

The most important thing for me in the blind test is that your ears were able to tell the difference.  Which was better (DD or HD) was an entirely different thing and would deserve another thread and a lot of San Miguel light at mahaba habang inuman at talastasan ito!

Have a great weekend you all!

Rev
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:08 AM by revskie »

Offline blackie

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #99 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:49 AM »
O sa sunod na shootout eto naman ang agenda: Hulaan kung DVD, Dibidi o Torrent file ang pinapalabas sa 14 inch TV ;D

Let your eyes decide...

Doc,

Are we talking "Golden Eyes"? hehe ;D.  Truly great to meet everyone who attended.  Looking forward to the results, specially of the audio test.  Thanks again Streetsmart for your hospitality and sharing your awesome theater!!!


Cheers,

Blackie
Panasonic/Denon/Wharfedale/M&K/Pioneer

Offline alvinh

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #100 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 12:38 PM »
Doc,

Are we talking "Golden Eyes"? hehe ;D.  Truly great to meet everyone who attended.  Looking forward to the results, specially of the audio test.  Thanks again Streetsmart for your hospitality and sharing your awesome theater!!!


Cheers,

Blackie

I had a short chat with Sir Mark last night regarding his ordeal with his PJ calibration. In my case, as far as color calibration, I know that I will probably be not so effective....not because of the limitations of the source, display nor calibration software. It is because of my "eyes". It will probably be better to check our "color blindness" first before we attempt to do the calibration by sight. hehehe. Do one of those color tests. It will most definitely going to be frustrating for me to calibrate my own PJ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness
Learn the technology but also learn to trust your ears and eyes...and enjoy the journey.

Offline blackie

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #101 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 12:44 PM »
That Ishihara Test is very revealing I thought the 7 was a 2........
Panasonic/Denon/Wharfedale/M&K/Pioneer

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #102 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 01:29 PM »
Here are the results:

VIDEO
On a range of 1 to 5 (5 is highest):
Popcorn - 4.23
BD30 - 4.07
Pio - 3.32
Oppo - 2.72

This was the same ranking in each of the individual tests (Detail, Jaggies, Color and Sharpness)

AUDIO
In the audio test, the % of those who correctly identified lossless audio vs ordinary Dolby Digital:
Overall - 46%
Sample 1 - 29% (Chicago - Cellblock tango)
Sample 2 - 33% (Chicago - last scene)
Sample 3 - 62% (Blade Runner - opening scene, lots of explosions)
Sample 4 - 38% (Blade Runner - bar scene, very deep LFE)
Sample 5 - 62% (Legends of Jazz - Jane Monheit)
Sample 6 - 55% (Legends of Jazz - Dave Brubeck)

Two members are hereby awarded the "Pinoydvd Golden Ear Award" for correctly identifying all 6 tracks. Ang hirap nun: @waxx and @alvinh

Two members get consolation awards for correctly identifying 5 tracks: @marl_5 and @stickfighter

One member will be expelled from Pinoydvd for incorrectly guessing all 6. Golden egg award. Perfect zero.

Three members will be suspended for one week from Pinoydvd for incorrectly guessing 5 tracks. One point lang sila.

Wala muna akong comments. Let's see what people say.
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 01:30 PM by streetsmart »
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Offline Zenki

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #103 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 02:55 PM »
Akala ko sinama yun Xtreme ni doc mel. di ko pa binili kanina because i was waiting for the result. akala yun Xtreme ang 2nd. ;D

why is oppo 5th only?
why is pio better than the oppo?

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #104 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 04:44 PM »
why is oppo 5th only?
why is pio better than the oppo?

There were only 4 player. Oppo was last, but this was expected.

The pio was connected to a DVDO Iscan VP50Pro video processor. That's why kahit mahina ang Pio, the video processor still improved the picture so that is was better than the Oppo but the pq can never match BD and Popcorn.
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Offline blued888

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #105 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 05:58 PM »
There were only 4 player. Oppo was last, but this was expected.

The pio was connected to a DVDO Iscan VP50Pro video processor. That's why kahit mahina ang Pio, the video processor still improved the picture so that is was better than the Oppo but the pq can never match BD and Popcorn.

If tanggalin yung VP50, better ang OPPO sa Pio? Btw what model of the OPPO was used?

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #106 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 07:01 PM »
If tanggalin yung VP50, better ang OPPO sa Pio? Btw what model of the OPPO was used?

In a previous shoot-out, we tested Pio 600 vs Oppo 983, 981 and 980. Talo ang Pio to all of the Oppos.

We used Oppo 980 in this latest blind test.
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Offline Mouldingo

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #107 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 07:10 PM »
Is the question whether upconversion SD can beat Tru HD answered conclusively?

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #108 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 07:17 PM »
Is the question whether upconversion SD can beat Tru HD answered conclusively?

"Upconversion SD" refers to video while TruHD is audio.

With respect to video, HD was hands down winner vs upscaled SD. The surprise was that people preferred Popcorn over BD.

With audio, the test proves that it's very difficult to tell the difference between lossless and legacy (in particular, Dolby TruHD vs Dolby Digital). The difference is more apparent with music and apparently, with certain types of music. That's why most people were correct with the "Legends of Jazz" clips but most people were wrong with the "Chicago" clips.
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Offline Mouldingo

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #109 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 07:33 PM »
"Upconversion SD" refers to video while TruHD is audio.


Sorry, I meant Full HD pala... :P  Is the program used on the popcorn a 720P source?

Offline juanch

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #110 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:22 PM »
I was really surprised that less than half of the participants (that includes me  ???) were unable to identify trueHD against legacy DD.

This just proves to me that I do not have to upgrade my current 6.1 set up to a 7.1 set up.
Saves me a lot of money too.

But in all honesty I was so sure of my answer on the first Chicago sound clip.
That's why I am so amazed that DD fares very well against TrueHD.

I remember the water drop sounding so full & rich in the first clip(that's why I chose it over the second)  which sounded a little less enveloping.

Oh well I'm happy I don't have to go trueHD yet, maybe pag 10.2 na yung kailangan  ;D
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:23 PM by juancho »

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #111 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:40 PM »
Sorry, I meant Full HD pala... :P  Is the program used on the popcorn a 720P source?

We used "Batman Begins" for all players. The Popcorn version was 1080p.
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Offline nerveblocker

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #112 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:53 PM »
Quote
One member will be expelled from Pinoydvd for incorrectly guessing all 6. Golden egg award. Perfect zero.

Aminin ko na ako ang BALUT!

What I think is that those who made perferct scores and bokya have spot on ears (i would defer to use the term golden) that were able to sonically tell the difference between the six sample tracks!

Get my drift?

It was all a question of what was their preference....Did the DD clip sounded better than the True HD?  Or was it the other way around?

Unlike video where we have objective parameters such as jaggies, contrast, detail and other video artifacts, audio is purely subjective on a reference audio rig.  There are no basis EXCEPT how your ears picked up the sound and how your brain processed the information and made you decide which is better.

Mind you, we all have different ears, assorted levels of tutule accumulation and unique brain processing capability.  That characters are yours and yours alone which makes the audio experience truly unique and personal.  That is the beauty of critical audio listening.

Again statistically speaking,  those that were in the 40% to 60% margin of error were those that did not know (or were having a hard time distinguishing) the DD tracks from the True HD clips ....In my opinion, those that were on both the far end of the spectrum (perfect and bokya scores) were the ones that have spot on ears (again i defer to use the term golden  ;D) that were able to aurally tell the difference between clips.

It was all a matter of which clip sounded better to them.

My sixty cents on the matter.

Kaya sir mark, post mo na din yung mga bokya!  Hats off din ako sa kanila!

Rev

Thank you very much Rev for redeeming me. I just realized that my purchase of the Onkyo 705 was a useless upgrade from my Denon 1803.  :-\ O malamang cheap lang ang taste ng tenga ko.   :P Mas maganda si Inday!!!
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 08:55 PM by nerveblocker »

Offline alvinh

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #113 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 09:08 PM »
I was really surprised that less than half of the participants (that includes me  ???) were unable to identify trueHD against legacy DD.

This just proves to me that I do not have to upgrade my current 6.1 set up to a 7.1 set up.
Saves me a lot of money too.

But in all honesty I was so sure of my answer on the first Chicago sound clip.
That's why I am so amazed that DD fares very well against TrueHD.

I remember the water drop sounding so full & rich in the first clip(that's why I chose it over the second)  which sounded a little less enveloping.

Oh well I'm happy I don't have to go trueHD yet, maybe pag 10.2 na yung kailangan  ;D


@Juancho...I agree bro. I think I already mentioned that I do not even have the hardware for TrueHD. My HK AVR8500 delivers DD that makes me smile or get teary-eyed when I watch a great movie. IMO, as quoted from Visa...priceless. Pero cyempre, TrueHD will still be on my wish list. But maybe not a priority. ;D ;D ;D
Learn the technology but also learn to trust your ears and eyes...and enjoy the journey.

Offline sanmig_ph

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #114 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM »
@Juancho...I agree bro. I think I already mentioned that I do not even have the hardware for TrueHD. My HK AVR8500 delivers DD that makes me smile or get teary-eyed when I watch a great movie. IMO, as quoted from Visa...priceless. Pero cyempre, TrueHD will still be on my wish list. But maybe not a priority. ;D ;D ;D


+1 ako dito brader, nawala yung kulam ko sa hdmi receiver :D
He always provides!  and He always does when you least expect it!

Offline Mouldingo

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #115 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:44 PM »
We used "Batman Begins" for all players. The Popcorn version was 1080p.

What was the source of the Popcorn Version? Funny how a "ripped" copy does better than the original source :-\ :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:46 PM by Mouldingo »

Offline streetsmart

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #116 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:51 PM »
What was the source of the Popcorn Version. Funny how a "ripped" copy does better than the original source :-\ :-\ :-\

No idea where the Popcorn version came from. You will have to watch LOTR in Popcorn. Absolutely incredible.

If you ask my personal opinion, I prefer BD. I think the colors are more accurate. I thought that in the particular scenes we tested, Popcorn color was reddish. But of course, my judgment was not from a blind test. Iba talaga ang blind test and the guys who participated aren't the ordinary guys in the street.

Nonetheless, I think that the main conclusion is that HD beats upconverted SD by a mile. Between Popcorn and BD, the difference is actually too small. I'd say it would be a tie.
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Offline sanmig_ph

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #117 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 10:54 PM »
negative feedback sa pch is yung color redish.
positive side maganda talaga ang pch kasi ang ang ganda ng burger ni debbie ;D
sa bluray panalo talaga tisoy na tisoy eh :D
He always provides!  and He always does when you least expect it!

Offline ricky

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #118 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:06 PM »
What was the source of the Popcorn Version? Funny how a "ripped" copy does better than the original source :-\ :-\ :-\

Sir maybe its the same as DD on orig and DTS na sa pirated(third party enhancement ;D) ;D I was really surprised about the result popcorn beat BD ???, yeah I know sd can never win against HD(whether ripped or orig) no matter how great the upscalling is BUt ripped media beating BD is quite interesting ::) ??? :o   

Offline ricky

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Re: SD vs BD
« Reply #119 on: Sep 28, 2008 at 11:09 PM »
negative feedback sa pch is yung color redish.
positive side maganda talaga ang pch kasi ang ang ganda ng burger ni debbie ;D
sa bluray panalo talaga tisoy na tisoy eh :D


Joel may dvd ako p**n where it is so clear you can see all the skin imperfections,kakadiri puro peklat :( I did not even finish the whole thing :( :( :(  Bad side ng high resolution siguro ;D ;D ;D