Topic: harman/kardon avr

[sanmig_ph]

Yah sori po medyo ot... anyway, on this matter, i am looking for short corrective action/s on how to at least fine tune my HK235 just to lessen the amount of crakky sound even on 2ch set up... hoping that even there's a mismatch between my equipment and my current room, baka lang mapaayos ko ng konti sa tulong ng nakakarami... maybe there's a short solution/s w/o spending. I am not convince through reading at the manual coz its too complicated to understand... If also performing calibration of HK235 would be a solution even using 2ch, pwede kaya 'to??... actually, natatakot me gawin yun kso baka magakamali me in exploring my system at di ko na maibalik sa dati kaya kayong mga experts me nagtatanong becuz of your experiences.. hope anyone here  will teach me the proper way of calibrating my system... Sir sanmig, hope u can help me too.... Many thanks to everyone....

pareng jhun audition mo setup ni pareng newbie alam ko lapit lang cya sa rockwell. naka hk235 cya & bw 602, dun mo macompare kung anu diffrence
ng hk sa ibang speaker. sabi mo sakin dati sa yosian solve ka na sa hk combo   advise ko sayo since may pre out yan ad ka na lang power amp & for sure gaganda pa lalo setup mo yun nga lang another gastos pero ganun talaga ang hobby na to magastos & enjoy
malupet ka naman sa calibration eh

[scofield]

Sir Mat,

Salamat, convinced naman ako sa mga sinasabi mo dahil naeexperience ko rin.

Actually ready na ako at go na go na ako sa HK335 36990 less 25% pa. Approve na ni misis may budget na. Kaya lang may 135 pa ako sayang naman kung dalawa pa AVR. Tama rin yung sinabi mo dati na lugi ka talaga kapag nagbenta ka ng gamit...lalo na kung ang rason mo eh upgrade.

May hinahanap lang talaga akong tunog sa audio na si ko ma explain. ehehehehe

salamat

[MAtZTER]

Kung happy ka naman pala sa HT and may hinahanap ka lang sa music. Why not buy a separate integrated stereo amp instead? Medyo tyaga nga lang sa tanggal-bunot (use banana plugs). Baka kasi yung price difference ng 335 baka makabili ka na ng integrated amp. And alam ko below 20k yung integrated amp ng HK: 120w pa .

IME, iba pa rin yung dedicated audio setup. Mas critical pa rin kasi music, so an integrated stereo amp built (specialized) for music will perform better than a multichannel AVR built for both.

Usually mga high end pre/pro (separates) lang ang kaya mag perform ng both HT and music na maganda. Accdg to the net, the Arcam is the cheapest one at $2,100 and pre amp processor pa lang to...WALA pang amplifier!

Hirap lang nga yung tanggal bunot ng 2 setups. Pero worth it for me. 

[scofield]

Sir,

isa rin yan sa mga kinukunsidera ko sa ngaun. tama ka nanaman... cge sir pag mumuni-munihan ko muna uli. hehhehe

salamat

[newbie pa rin]

Yan din ang iniisip ko.
Instead of buying a power amp i'll go for stereo amp.
Mas madali when I decide to go on a separate system.
Im planning kasi to put the audio sa room and HT sa sala.
For now in case I decide to buy one tanggal bunot na muna.

And mukhang mas practical sya in terms of electric consumption.
Isa lang kasi ang ipa-power mo unlike pag power amp + avr dalawa lagi.

[MAtZTER]

Yan din ang iniisip ko.
Instead of buying a power amp i'll go for stereo amp.
Mas madali when I decide to go on a separate system.
Im planning kasi to put the audio sa room and HT sa sala.
For now in case I decide to buy one tanggal bunot na muna.

With this option, you can go for 2 sets  of speaker wires (1 for HT, 1 for audio) w/ banana plugs at the speaker side, so that its easier, only unplug at the speaker side. I once used only 1 set of speaker wires & change both amp & speaker side...sigh, hirap.

Since di naman super critical ang HT (at this budget level), you can use generic 12 ga wires. Then go for branded speaker wires for your audio setup.

And mukhang mas practical sya in terms of electric consumption.
Isa lang kasi ang ipa-power mo unlike pag power amp + avr dalawa lagi.

I also thought the same thing about power consumption & power amps. But our electric bill did not go up naman dramatically since I used power amps. Only increased by about P300,  I think @ 2-4 movies a week plus music listening, same pace as before.

Our amps naman are class AB: meaning they are efficient and draw power only when needed. So when you are listening to mild music that only requires 20w, it gives only 20w. OTH, class A amps (nasa high end na to usually) gives the whole power rating EVERY time, kung 100w, it gives a whopping 100w constantly...yan tataas bill mo. 

[av_phile1]

Our amps naman are class AB: meaning they are efficient and draw power only when needed. So when you are listening to mild music that only requires 20w, it gives only 20w. OTH, class A amps (nasa high end na to usually) gives the whole power rating EVERY time, kung 100w, it gives a whopping 100w constantly...yan tataas bill mo. 

On class A/B, there's such a thing as quiescent current or idle power consumption mainly because the transistors have a bias current even at zero load or signal. Unlike class B.   This is to eliminate crossover distortion.  And depending on the amp, the idle current can be high.   On my stereo Acurus with 250wpc, the idle power consumed is 70watts.  The 7-ch HK avr-645 has a power-on idle power consumption of 120watts.  That means without signal, just the unit being ON, the gear consumes the idle power.  So when you start listening, just add your power level consumption on top of the idle power consumption. 

[MAtZTER]

Thanks for that info sir AV. I should close my AVR pala when not in use.

My friend just leaves his HK 635 on most of the time, even when not in use.... and uses his HT system as PC speakers & Divx watching too, LOL. 

I should tell him this... 

[av_phile1]

Malaki-laki rin yan.  120 watts for 30 days is 86kwh.  Depending on your bracket, that's around P500 per month.     Assuming you only listen to it half that time, you're wasting P250/mo.   But,  barya lang yan for the rich and famous. 

[jhunB!]

pareng jhun audition mo setup ni pareng newbie alam ko lapit lang cya sa rockwell. naka hk235 cya & bw 602, dun mo macompare kung anu diffrence
ng hk sa ibang speaker. sabi mo sakin dati sa yosian solve ka na sa hk combo   advise ko sayo since may pre out yan ad ka na lang power amp & for sure gaganda pa lalo setup mo yun nga lang another gastos pero ganun talaga ang hobby na to magastos & enjoy
malupet ka naman sa calibration eh

ayos ka talaga sanmig... kasama pala kita dito sa paligid ko... lam u naman kung ano kina-calibrate ko eh... kso sa AVR nasisira yung expertice ko....  kelangan lang sa HK ko siguro final dispo ng engineer... ok yung units ko pero ayaw nya sa bahay ko... di ma-appreciate ng equipments ko yung bahay ko eh kasi squater lang... he he he!!!...
pre nu kaya magandang gawin ko??.. parang gusto kong mag-down-grade ng speaker from FS to BS... wat du u think ... pwede kaya ipa-trade-in ko sa binilihan ko??

[sanmig_ph]

ayos ka talaga sanmig... kasama pala kita dito sa paligid ko... lam u naman kung ano kina-calibrate ko eh... kso sa AVR nasisira yung expertice ko....  kelangan lang sa HK ko siguro final dispo ng engineer... ok yung units ko pero ayaw nya sa bahay ko... di ma-appreciate ng equipments ko yung bahay ko eh kasi squater lang... he he he!!!...
pre nu kaya magandang gawin ko??.. parang gusto kong mag-down-grade ng speaker from FS to BS... wat du u think ... pwede kaya ipa-trade-in ko sa binilihan ko??

pare im not expert here anu ba trip mo ht o audio? kung ht, BS & a pair of good sub solve ka na dun.sub na mag drive ng LF.
sa hobby kasi na to budget palague big factor. kung gusto mo pa mas detailed add ka ng extra power amp yun nga lang another gastos
pero kung solve ka na ok na kahit wala power amp.
hindi ba match speaker mo sa HK? subukan mo muna acoustic treatment kasi sabi mo ok sayo dati ng audition mo sa store.
kung balak mo naman mag downgrade audition mo muna ulit anu ang ipapalit mo para hindi sayang ang upgrade mo kasi pag itrade in mo less na price ng speaker mo. try to call yung binilhan mo kung anu maganda deal kung ok trade in

[MAtZTER]

jhunb, sent u PM. just follow the instructions and ok na yan. I had a very similar experience before when my HK was new. Akala ko din may palpak, yun pala I just forgot to set the listening position distance.

Malaki-laki rin yan.  120 watts for 30 days is 86kwh.  Depending on your bracket, that's around P500 per month.    Assuming you only listen to it half that time, you're wasting P250/mo.   But, barya lang yan for the rich and famous.  

Yep, 120w is big alright. Its like leaving several lights on.

I just recalled that my friend's bills are paid for by his company.... lucky dude.   must be why he doesnt mind talking to me thru cell for 15-30 mins at a time even about non-business matters, LOL.

pare im not expert here anu ba trip mo ht o audio? kung ht, BS & a pair of good sub solve ka na dun.sub na mag drive ng LF.

Agree ako dito kay sanmig, BS + SUB will handle your HT needs. FS, IMO is more on for audio purposes, and when it comes to matching it w/ AVR's, usually the higher the model, the better sounding they get.

[acostaml]

Sir Mat,

Salamat, convinced naman ako sa mga sinasabi mo dahil naeexperience ko rin.

Actually ready na ako at go na go na ako sa HK335 36990 less 25% pa. Approve na ni misis may budget na. Kaya lang may 135 pa ako sayang naman kung dalawa pa AVR. Tama rin yung sinabi mo dati na lugi ka talaga kapag nagbenta ka ng gamit...lalo na kung ang rason mo eh upgrade.

May hinahanap lang talaga akong tunog sa audio na si ko ma explain. ehehehehe

salamat

saan meron hk335 na may discount na 25%? planning to get an HK receiver...any suggestions? my current setup is a yamaha 659 wharfes 9.4s,9cs,wh2 and sw120

BTW...Which is better? 335 or the yamaha 659?

Thanks!

[scofield]

di ko alam kung sino mas magaling 335 or 659

sa digital dreams sm north edsa, cyber zone. yung naka display nila less 20% lang ata. sabi sa akin, sakin lang daw niya ibibigay yung 25% less (secret lang daw). Sige nga sir, dalawin mo ng para malman natin kung minamadali lang nila ako. hanapin mo allen uy.

3 units na lang daw yun reserve na yung dalawa.

salamat

[acostaml]

di ko alam kung sino mas magaling 335 or 659

sa digital dreams sm north edsa, cyber zone. yung naka display nila less 20% lang ata. sabi sa akin, sakin lang daw niya ibibigay yung 25% less (secret lang daw). Sige nga sir, dalawin mo ng para malman natin kung minamadali lang nila ako. hanapin mo allen uy.

3 units na lang daw yun reserve na yung dalawa.

salamat

Oo ba! sige ill visit them this weekend. Tingnan natin kung 20% or 25%. Sir is this on cash basis or card? So display unit yung bibigay nya sayo?

Gusto ko sana ma side by side yung yamaha 659 and HK 335...I really want to know kung ano talaga ang pinagkaiba ng US brand sa Japan brand:)

[scofield]

cash price lang yung 25% off.

hindi ko lang sigurado kung display unit yung ibibigay. basta meron pa raw silang 3 unit. nag pasobra daw sila ng order bago lumabas yun mga x40 series nila...

lahat ng X35 nila dun naka sale...

[MAtZTER]

335 is a higher model than the 659. I think the 659's counterpart is the HK235.

Whether which is better will depend on your use, and your listening pref.

If you are more into HT, Yamaha excels. Its a bit thin sounding and bright, but IME, you need a bit of these to hear a good detailed HT experience.

If you want a good compromise of both, HK. Warm and "thick" sounding (specially 335 & up), great for music. not bad in HT.

If you are seriously into music, a separate setup for audio will still be best, IMO. I got myself a high model HK thinking I could get the best experience in music, but it still resulted into a separate audio setup in the end. Not that the HK did not perform, it was absolutely great, specially with dynamic music. But a dedicated audio setup just blew me away. 

just my 2 cents 

I really want to know kung ano talaga ang pinagkaiba ng US brand sa Japan brand

Parang pareho sa cars.... American brands want it MUSCULAR. Japanese want it sleek & efficient.

[av_phile1]

I really want to know kung ano talaga ang pinagkaiba ng US brand sa Japan brand:)

If I recall right, there was this stereo review article in the late 80s that struck me about some basic behaviour difference between Jap and US amps.  Maybe true at that time.   Accdg to that article, Japanese amps, in general, like Denon, Kenwood, Pioneer, Onkyo, etc, behave like constant current sources and require higher impedance loads.  That is why many are rated at 8 ohms above for their power  as they could not deliver the higher current required at lower loads.    OTH, American brands like Marantz, Carver, McKintosh, Apt Holman and Hafler, etc.  behave more like constant voltage sources, so they can operate lower impedance loads down to even 2 ohms and deliver the high current needed at those loads.  I suppose European brands follow the American model.  But, ofcourse, exceptions were and are aplenty.   

[chariol]

mga sir, saan ba ok bumili ng hk na avr? in terms of service and price. tnx alot.

[r_Y_@_n]

same question din po, planning to upgrade... any suggestions where we can audition discounted AVR's like HK?    TIA 

[skylynx888]

You guys can try Acoustical Space in Megamall, or Architectural Audio in Greenbelt 1, good service naman sila 

[spectraav]

same question din po, planning to upgrade... any suggestions where we can audition discounted AVR's like HK?    TIA 

sir,
you could drop by our store to audition the avr's at parksquare 1

[Daemon_Seraphim]

Kung happy ka naman pala sa HT and may hinahanap ka lang sa music. Why not buy a separate integrated stereo amp instead? Medyo tyaga nga lang sa tanggal-bunot (use banana plugs). Baka kasi yung price difference ng 335 baka makabili ka na ng integrated amp. And alam ko below 20k yung integrated amp ng HK: 120w pa .

IME, iba pa rin yung dedicated audio setup. Mas critical pa rin kasi music, so an integrated stereo amp built (specialized) for music will perform better than a multichannel AVR built for both.

Usually mga high end pre/pro (separates) lang ang kaya mag perform ng both HT and music na maganda. Accdg to the net, the Arcam is the cheapest one at $2,100 and pre amp processor pa lang to...WALA pang amplifier!

Hirap lang nga yung tanggal bunot ng 2 setups. Pero worth it for me. 

Sir What can you recommend for separate setups. Assuming I already have speakers (Monitor Audio).
Audio: Int Amplifier = ?
HT: Receiver = ?

I have a budget 40k..

[MAtZTER]

I havent auditioned them myself, but many people here use MA with NAD BEE's. Dont forget to get a good dedicated CDp.

MA also suits both HK & Yamaha in my experience. I installed a MA setup for my sister.

Since you have a separate audio setup already, go for a Yamaha receiver. If your MA is a FS, RXV 1x00 model. If its a BS, RXV 65x model. just my 2 cents

[jhunB!]

jhunb, sent u PM. just follow the instructions and ok na yan. I had a very similar experience before when my HK was new. Akala ko din may palpak, yun pala I just forgot to set the listening position distance.

Hello Sir Matz... thank u very much for accommodating your time for me over the phone... I followed ur advise for my HK.. i adjusted the delay for LS/RS to 1.5 m and also i adjusted the level from +4db to 0db... medyo naging soft yung tunong... al little bit better... pag naka-up yung output level ng speaker medyo boomy ang tunog so parang basak na pag nsa -20db... i-adjust ko din xover from 100khz to 55khz since yung 100khz settings ksi is for bookshelves daw as per SM appliace showroom (naka-usap ko kasi yung demo guy dun)... hopefully, ok na yung set up ko for now... maybe i will add a SW na lang to drive low freq properly... then next na lang siguro yung center & ss...
pag naka-utang ulit... ngek ....

Sir thank you ulit... ganda pala boses mo sa phone.... nakaka ... PAUTANG!!! ... JOKE!!!

[MAtZTER]

Hello Sir Matz... thank u very much for accommodating your time for me over the phone... I followed ur advise for my HK.. i adjusted the delay for LS/RS to 1.5 m and also i adjusted the level from +4db to 0db... medyo naging soft yung tunong... al little bit better... pag naka-up yung output level ng speaker medyo boomy ang tunog so parang basak na pag nsa -20db... i-adjust ko din xover from 100khz to 55khz since yung 100khz settings ksi is for bookshelves daw as per SM appliace showroom (naka-usap ko kasi yung demo guy dun)... hopefully, ok na yung set up ko for now... maybe i will add a SW na lang to drive low freq properly... then next na lang siguro yung center & ss...
pag naka-utang ulit... ngek ....

Sir thank you ulit... ganda pala boses mo sa phone.... nakaka ... PAUTANG!!!   ... JOKE!!!

LOL  . Glad to be of help to you. Bedroom voice mode pa lang yun. Pag office mode may dala pa akong latigo sa background.  Whapak!

You dont need to use the crossover settings since you dont have a sub yet. And for your room size & speaker size, you might not need subs anymore. But if you do get a sub, you would be passing the very power hungry LFE load to the sub.

LFE kasi eats up a lot of power, so if your AVR is not powerful enough, chances are hirap na sya pagdating sa MIDS & Highs. Getting a sub and setting your speaker setting to "small" eases that load from the AVR. Mas lilitaw yung mids & highs. But sayang yung FS, a BS can also do this effectively w/ a sub. Again, this is why I recommend high model receivers for FS, para di "kapos".

In my setup, I use 2 channel (no sub) only for my FS when listening to music, speaker setting large. For HT, I set it to "small" and the mid range and highs are really crisp.

[r_Y_@_n]

sir,
you could drop by our store to audition the avr's at parksquare 1

will try to pass by sometime sir... thanks! 

can you PM po last price for HK140, HK240, denon1705, 1706 and 1906? TIA   

[r_Y_@_n]

You guys can try Acoustical Space in Megamall, or Architectural Audio in Greenbelt 1, good service naman sila 

thank you sir... 

[Daemon_Seraphim]

MAtTZer: I have MA B2 speakers.

[jhunB!]

LOL  . Glad to be of help to you. Bedroom voice mode pa lang yun. Pag office mode may dala pa akong latigo sa background.  Whapak!

You dont need to use the crossover settings since you dont have a sub yet. And for your room size & speaker size, you might not need subs anymore. But if you do get a sub, you would be passing the very power hungry LFE load to the sub.

LFE kasi eats up a lot of power, so if your AVR is not powerful enough, chances are hirap na sya pagdating sa MIDS & Highs. Getting a sub and setting your speaker setting to "small" eases that load from the AVR. Mas lilitaw yung mids & highs. But sayang yung FS, a BS can also do this effectively w/ a sub. Again, this is why I recommend high model receivers for FS, para di "kapos".

In my setup, I use 2 channel (no sub) only for my FS when listening to music, speaker setting large. For HT, I set it to "small" and the mid range and highs are really crisp.

Talaga lang sir ha!! ... may gulpi d' gulat yung boses mo pag pagn-office modulation ... anyways, another pla ko once i've got an SW is to disable 1 woofer on my FS... i dont know if dat is possible but i will try someday... u'r correct acutally, sayang yung FS ko talaga kung ganun ang setting ko for my FS... but for now, medyo ok na, a little bit satisfaction for stereo listening.... Planning to get a higher HK model is not my current plan ryt now, completion of my set up is currently my target... (how  )... para ma-enjoy me naman yung complete HT equipment...
Sir Matz, hope someday, u'll allow me to visit u and demo to me your gears... i wish to see how powerful & attractive  ur set up...   d kaya ma-bading ako sa mga gears mo .... joke ... sama ko si sanmig, kasama ko dito sa opis yan... Regards & thanks!!!