Author Topic: My dream theater (Read 417327 times)

ninjababez® · « **Reply #2040 on:** Jan 06, 2011 at 08:52 PM »

Quote from: streetsmart on Jan 06, 2011 at 07:39 PM

Hehe. Thanks, Nelson. Actually, a few months ko na ginagamit ang XTZ. Ngayon lang ako nag-post kasi nasa bahay lang past 2 days kaya wala magawa. May sakit -- measles (sakit ng bata).

Pagaling na.

get well soon bro so we can visit na!

iiinas · « **Reply #2041 on:** Jan 07, 2011 at 12:46 PM »

sumakit ulo ko sa explanation nyo sir mark!

but definitely a great tool! grats!

XXXyzledge · « **Reply #2042 on:** Jan 07, 2011 at 01:07 PM »

Quote from: streetsmart on Jan 06, 2011 at 07:39 PM

Hehe. Thanks, Nelson. Actually, a few months ko na ginagamit ang XTZ. Ngayon lang ako nag-post kasi nasa bahay lang past 2 days kaya wala magawa. May sakit -- measles (sakit ng bata).

Pagaling na.

get well soon Mark!

Stagea · « **Reply #2043 on:** Jan 22, 2011 at 08:32 PM »

Thanks Mark for inviting us over to experience your dream theater, and to savor some of your fine wines. We also enjoyed the thorough Audyssey walk-through, and sampling the different curves in the Pro implementation.

As I expected, maganda talaga ang system mo. I haven't heard it prior to the Electras, but it's an impressive HT as it is. You have excellent audio and video right there.

Congrats and salamat po ulit.

Stagea · « **Reply #2044 on:** Jan 22, 2011 at 08:43 PM »

Salamat din to Luther and Hansen. Andami ko natutunan sa inyo.

Till next time po.

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #2045 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 06:08 AM »

Sige. Mng-inggit pa kayo mga masters. I reaaaally wanted to go yesterday pero talagang ang daming obligations.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2046 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 06:22 AM »

Quote from: Stagea on Jan 22, 2011 at 08:32 PM

Thanks Mark for inviting us over to experience your dream theater, and to savor some of your fine wines. We also enjoyed the thorough Audyssey walk-through, and sampling the different curves in the Pro implementation.

As I expected, maganda talaga ang system mo. I haven't heard it prior to the Electras, but it's an impressive HT as it is. You have excellent audio and video right there.

Congrats and salamat po ulit.

Thanks din sa inyo ni Luther for coming over. Biggest thanks though to Hansen, the "Golden Ears" of AV Driver. I learned a lot and enjoyed a lot. I think we successfully tweaked the audio to sound even better, by playing with the Audyssey Pro target curve.

Unfortunately, we realized that the PSB B25 speakers that I'm using for the surrounds and surround backs are not suited for the system. Hay ....

According to Luther, who has been to my HT several times over more than 3 years, the latest upgrade of speakers and subs has improved the audio 40-50%. That's pretty high so that makes me feel good.

It's not just the sound quality of the speakers but also the precise imaging, the fine detail, the huge soundstage, etc. Just a little more and it should be almost perfect.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2047 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 06:24 AM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Jan 23, 2011 at 06:08 AM

Sige. Mng-inggit pa kayo mga masters. I reaaaally wanted to go yesterday pero talagang ang daming obligations.

Hi Nelson! Miss ka nga namin. Pinag-uusapan ka nga.

XXXyzledge · « **Reply #2048 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 09:30 AM »

Quote from: streetsmart on Jan 23, 2011 at 06:22 AM

Thanks din sa inyo ni Luther for coming over. Biggest thanks though to Hansen, the "Golden Ears" of AV Driver. I learned a lot and enjoyed a lot. I think we successfully tweaked the audio to sound even better, by playing with the Audyssey Pro target curve.

Unfortunately, we realized that the PSB B25 speakers that I'm using for the surrounds and surround backs are not suited for the system. Hay ....

According to Luther, who has been to my HT several times over more than 3 years, the latest upgrade of speakers and subs has improved the audio 40-50%. That's pretty high so that makes me feel good.

It's not just the sound quality of the speakers but also the precise imaging, the fine detail, the huge soundstage, etc. Just a little more and it should be almost perfect.

i smell another hapgreyd !!

dts-HD 3D · « **Reply #2049 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 11:16 AM »

Your system just keeps better & better sir mark. A well thought & well spent upgrades over the last holiday hirit! Congrats again!

As I recall it w/ your old setup @-2db its already screamingly loud but now its more like effortless, more dynamic and detailed. No wonder bumigay ang surrounds kasi mate-temp ka talaga lakasan pa lalo up to 0db

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #2050 on:** Jan 23, 2011 at 01:12 PM »

Quote from: streetsmart on Jan 23, 2011 at 06:24 AM

Hi Nelson! Miss ka nga namin. Pinag-uusapan ka nga.

Nakow sir! Ayan na nga ang kinakatakot ko sa EB sa inyo kapag absent...

I'm sure it's well worth the event kasi nanjan mga masters ko.

Congrats on the newly tuned system. Ang balita ko nga, lumabas ang ganda ng BE.

stickfighter · « **Reply #2051 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 09:26 AM »

Good morning sir Mark!

Thank you for having me over your place once again to experience your upgraded HT, now with the Focals.

I am speechless...the sound is simply amazing.

Like I said, the sound of your HT improved at 50% better from your last set-up.

Thank you also for giving me the opportunity to help you decide on which center speaker to go with. I just hope that my opinions did matter.

And finally, thanks for running a small blind test on the issue of lossless vs lossy audio output. I made me realize that a receiver upgrade is that necessary for now...instead, I will buy a love seat reclining couch!

I enjoyed and had a nice time in our aftermath conversations while having wine...something I always look forward to when visiting your place.

Maraming salamat at sa uulitin po sir Mark!

streetsmart · « **Reply #2052 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 05:34 PM »

I always love it when you have a major acoustic impact from a relatively inexpensive project or acquisition. That's what happened with this sofa:

For a very long time now, I had been thinking about changing my sofa (or adding another sofa, which is what happened). The problem is that my sofa has a high back which, when I am seated, is even higher than the top of my head, thus completely covering my ears. This is a very bad chair for audio. The back of the sofa should not be higher than your ears. Ideally, it should be only about shoulder height. The technical reasons are simply that you don't hear the surrounds and surround backs. Also, the sound waves bounce off the sofa back and back to your ears, creating some distortion, particularly in the high frequency range.

After many years, I finally got around to getting a new sofa which has the ideal measurements. In my view, the acoustic improvement is even bigger than I had imagined. Having a high-back chair is like having your head under a pillow. The new chair gives more air to the sound. I suspect that I am now hearing the late reflections from the rear and that is actually a good thing. It gives more life to the sound.

praktikal · « **Reply #2053 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 05:36 PM »

WOW!

gunblade977 · « **Reply #2054 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 05:40 PM »

ganda sir mark!

Pati av rack nagpalit ka na rin pala.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2055 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 05:46 PM »

After I got the Focal Electra speaker set, some people complained that the center speaker did not match the fronts. If you look at how big the fronts are (Focal Electra 1037 Be, around 48" high) and how relatively tiny the center speaker is, I guess you could easily come to that conclusion.

When you consider that some authors say that 80% of the sound of a movie comes from the center speaker, you would think that it's best to have a huge monster center speaker. So, after some negotiations with my friends at AV Driver, they offered me a deal which was hard to beat -- a single Focal Electra 1028 Be to be swapped with my center, at full credit. So, I had the Electra 1028 Be delivered:

The Electra 1028 Be is the smaller cousin of the Electra 1037 Be. Instead of 3 x 7" woofers for the bass, it has 2 x 6.5" woofers. On the other hand, it has an improved version of the Beryllium tweeter. I couldn't use the Electra 1037 or 1038 Be as the front because it's too high and it would block a portion of my screen.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2056 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 05:56 PM »

Yesterday, I had some Pinoydvd friends come over -- Stickfighter, Ninjababez, Dts-hd3d and Nerveblocker --, along with Hansen, the golden ears manager of AV Driver, to test the new center speaker.

In preparation, I did an Audyssey Pro calibration for the setups with the small center speaker (Electra 1008 Be) and the big FS center (Electra 1028 Be), and saved these in my computer. Audyssey Pro allows me to re-load the calibration in about 10 minutes.

We first listened to the new big FS center and then the small center. We used a standard reference concert, with a powerful tenor and soprano. I also made sure that the voices were coming from the center speaker because if you actually check, for most concerts, the voices come from the fronts, not the center.

Within a few seconds of hearing the small center (after listening to the big FS), it was immediately apparent to everyone that the small speaker was much better. Big shock. It was more complete and, ironically, bigger sounding. More natural and detailed. Less muffled. Pinpoint imaging. Beautiful soundstage without any gaps. How did this happen with this tiny speaker?

iiinas · « **Reply #2057 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:02 PM »

Quote from: streetsmart on Jan 30, 2011 at 05:56 PM

Within a few seconds of hearing the small center (after listening to the big FS), it was immediately apparent to everyone that the small speaker was much better. Big shock. It was more complete and, ironically, bigger sounding. More natural and detailed. Less muffled. Pinpoint imaging. Beautiful soundstage without any gaps. How did this happen with this tiny speaker?

really!?!

great design made by focal then...

sayang hindi ako nakapunta...

ninjababez® · « **Reply #2058 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:10 PM »

Quote from: iiinas on Jan 30, 2011 at 06:02 PM

really!?!

great design made by focal then...

sayang hindi ako nakapunta...

great design nga bro. nagtawanan nalang kami ni martin after a few seconds playing the concert dahil obvious yung difference.
but i still waited for the chic to sing kasi yun yung feeling ko mas maraming frequency covered. it did not disappoint. suspect ko talaga is the center speaker having more driver variation + tweeter ofcourse.
unlike the FS na halos pareho yung sizes ng drivers

streetsmart · « **Reply #2059 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:15 PM »

Firstly, I think that the content of the center speaker is mainly dialogue. Even if the center may contain a lot of information other than dialogue, what really distinguishes the center is dialogue. In most cases, the other information of the center is also found in the fronts. In any case, when we did the test, we certainly listened hard to the difference in quality of the vocals.

Now, take a look at this beautiful link and look at the frequency range of male and female voices. They are from around 100 Hz to 1kHz, with harmonics reaching up to 8 kHz:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

The small center speaker had a 3" mid-range driver handling 500 Hz to 2.2 kHz and 2 x 6.5" drivers handling frequencies up to 500 Hz.

On the other hand, the big FS had a 6.5" driver handling 230 Hz up to 2.2 kHz.

If you analyze this data, you will see that the small center speaker had 3 drivers (2 x 6.5" and 1 x 3") handling the majority of the frequencies for vocals while the big FS had only a single driver (1 x 6.5"). Furthermore, Hansen explained that for the higher frequencies, a smaller driver has better sq than a big driver. Therefore, the small 3" driver was actually more effective for the 500 Hz to 2.2 kHz region, which is where most of the vocals are.

For the center speaker, I have always advocated a tower speaker over the typical horizontal speaker. In this particular case, I concede that Focal has done a very good job with its horizontal center speaker. Everyone immediately knew that it was much better than the big tower speaker.

nerveblocker · « **Reply #2060 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:48 PM »

Although I didn't hear the FS as the center speaker, the Focal center speaker blended seamlessly with the fronts. I wasn't able to distinguish if the vocals were coming from the fronts, center or both which is a good thing and should be. Maybe it's the horizontal orientation of the center that made the integration harmonious with the fronts as compared to the floorstander. What could I say...the best is still getting better. Great job!

Thanks for the get together sir Mark. The company was more intimate with only a few of us but I learned more in these small sessions than our big gatherings. Till next time...

Onkyo606 · « **Reply #2061 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:54 PM »

nicely done sir mark

this is waht i like about your thread, you have always provided write ups that give better understanding for readers on what you are talking about

not only a sight to behold but intelligence to grasp

kudos to you sir mark.

juanch · « **Reply #2062 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 06:59 PM »

Very impressive upgrades sir Mark.
And nice impressions with the Focal center speaker versus the FS, It was a short but compelling read.

Your new sofa is also great. I know now where I'll sit next time I visit

streetsmart · « **Reply #2063 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 07:00 PM »

The other week, John M of AV Driver visited and I decided to show off the new SVS Ultras with "The Haunting". I set the AVR at reference level and let it blow. It really blew. The PSB surrounds gave up. Parang machine gun.

Later that week, I was with Pchin and we noticed some popping sounds with "Flight of the Phoenix". PSB speakers again.

So, I decided to try out the Focal surrounds. I really need bookshelf speakers for the surrounds and surround backs + I don't believe in spending too much for the surrounds because they mainly just add ambience and contribute to some panning. For me, the main criteria for the surrounds is that they should be of the same family or have similar drivers + they should be able to handle the power requirement. It's very difficult to "audition" surrounds.

So, we tested these Focal Profile 908 speakers yesterday, which have the same mid-range drivers as my other Focals and the same tweeter as the Heights:

The binding posts of the Focal speakers are beautiful. The only problem is that they are non-standard so you can't use twin banana plugs.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2064 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 07:08 PM »

The "test" using "Flight of the Phoenix" and "The Haunting" were successful. The Focal surrounds held their own. However, at reference level of "The Haunting", we heard a pop, probably from the Wide speakers, which almost gave me a heart attack (even if AV Driver vows that they will fix, for free, any blown driver).

Earlier today, I did some testing with Audyssey Pro and I couldn't see anything unusual with any speaker so I'm assuming there was no damage done. We are suspecting it was a "soft" clip of the Emotiva amp (200 watts @ 8 ohms and 300 watts @ 4 ohms). The problem is that the speaker crossover point was at 40 Hz and "The Haunting" is really LOUD.

Lesson learned -- I have a phobia now of "The Haunting". My New Year's resolution is never to drive my system at indecent sound levels.

We were driving the system so strong that last week, @Stagea thought that I had a butt kicker. Wala problema with the 2 x SVS Ultras and 2 x Paradigm Servo-15 subs. Problem was *probably* the huge Emotiva amps. Hay ....

Ayoko na!

streetsmart · « **Reply #2065 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 07:20 PM »

Conclusion of the surrounds "test" was that I will get 2 pairs of the Focal 908 BS so that I have a full Focal setup (although the actual finish will be different from that in the picture). Frankly, I'm not sure how big an improvement there will be but theoretically, it should be better. It should provide a more seamless surround experience because of the similar drivers. Also, these speakers can handle more power ... even if I've already promised not to drive my system indecently loud.

It will take me probably one more week to fabricate the brackets and mount the speakers. Let's see how it sounds after that!

My experience with the experiment on the center speakers was also great. It reinforces the truth that in this hobby, nothing beats an actual audition in your actual setup.

My experience with the sofa is incredibly great! A huge improvement for a relatively small investment.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2066 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 07:30 PM »

Quote from: nerveblocker on Jan 30, 2011 at 06:48 PM

Although I didn't hear the FS as the center speaker, the Focal center speaker blended seamlessly with the fronts. I wasn't able to distinguish if the vocals were coming from the fronts, center or both which is a good thing and should be. Maybe it's the horizontal orientation of the center that made the integration harmonious with the fronts as compared to the floorstander. What could I say...the best is still getting better. Great job!

Martin had the same impression. Parang masyado raw malakas ang FS na center. Yet, Audyssey had balanced the volume so the SPL of the FS and the horizontal speakers was the same. I think that somehow, probably because they are really designed to be centers, the horizontal centers just blended much better with the Fronts.

streetsmart · « **Reply #2067 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 07:35 PM »

Quote from: Onkyo606 on Jan 30, 2011 at 06:54 PM

nicely done sir mark

this is waht i like about your thread, you have always provided write ups that give better understanding for readers on what you are talking about

not only a sight to behold but intelligence to grasp

kudos to you sir mark.

Thanks, Tirso. I always put a lot of thought into these upgrades and I make sure that I transfer whatever I learn (or think that I learn!) to the Pinoydvd community.

gaol · « **Reply #2068 on:** Jan 30, 2011 at 09:00 PM »

Hi Mark, Hay sayang I couldn't go last Saturday. Every EB, large or mini, at your house there is sure to be new improvements to enjoy and witness. Medyo busy talaga as the schoolyear comes to an end.

Ibang klase talaga ang iyong quest for your dream theater. The journey's end, if it even exists, is sure to be nirvana, but it's the journey that makes the quest worthwhile.

nerveblocker · « **Reply #2069 on:** Jan 31, 2011 at 04:11 AM »

Sir Mark, have you tried floorstanders for the surrounds? I know that you wouldn't want to invest so much in the 5-10% contribution of the surrounds to your system but that might be the solution to the elimination of the "pop". You might want to run the Haunting again with this set up then decide. Your Emotiva amp has the beef to drive them to their fullest potential.