Author Topic: My dream theater  (Read 402589 times)

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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2070 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 05:13 AM »
Sir Mark, have you tried floorstanders for the surrounds? I know that you wouldn't want to invest so much in the 5-10% contribution of the surrounds to your system but that might be the solution to the elimination of the "pop".  You might want to run the Haunting again with this set up then decide. Your Emotiva amp has the beef to drive them to their fullest potential.   

Yes, I used to have floorstanders for surrounds. They can handle power but they don't really provide the proper effect. Surrounds are mainly for ambience and that's why they must be mounted high. Now, try to mount the FS Focals high. You have a choice of either 120 lbs for the Electra 1038 or 75 lbs for the Electra 1028. That's why you have to use BS speakers for surrounds.

If you want to reduce the power needed by a speaker, increase the crossover point, so I raised it to 80 Hz. I think the new Focal Profile 908 should be sufficient cuz it passed our torture tests.

I still think that it could have been the amp that clipped when we heard the pop. The SPL was unbelievably loud. Hay ... a 200 watt amp clipping.  :'(
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2071 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 05:22 AM »
Some more random thoughts on the center speaker issue:

1) I've noticed that when all the tweeters of the LCR (+ Wides in my case) speakers are of the same height and approximately ear level, the coherence and smoothness of the sound stage just snaps into place. The small center speaker (Electra 1008 Be) is mounted so that it's tweeter is at the same height as the fronts. However, the tweeter of the Electra 1028 Be FS is much lower than my fronts so the only thing you can do is put a kalso at the front of the speaker so the tweeter is angled slightly upward. I think this arrangement is less than ideal.

2) A friend of mine had a tiny Focal Corus speaker that matched the rest of his speaker set. Although it was tiny, it produced a big sound and I didn't find anything wrong with it. A salesman convinced him to get a huge Paradigm center speaker. I've listened to the system and I can't detect any improvement. Theoretically, the sound should have deteriorated cuz the center is no longer the same family (or even brand) as the rest. In other words, insofar as the center speaker is concerned, size seems to be a much lesser consideration. In fact, are they purposely designed to be small? Does that produce a better sound for vocals? I don't know ... yet.

3) I still think that theoretically, all things being equal, vertical speaker is better than a horizontal speaker, no matter what the purpose of the speaker. That's because of the comb filtering that the horizontal speaker produces and that is well-documented. In our experiment, however, all things were not equal cuz the drivers and crossovers were different. It seems like those were enough to offset the innate advantage of a vertically-oriented speaker.
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 05:28 AM by streetsmart »
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Offline stickfighter

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2072 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 05:36 AM »
Martin had the same impression. Parang masyado raw malakas ang FS na center. Yet, Audyssey had balanced the volume so the SPL of the FS and the horizontal speakers was the same. I think that somehow, probably because they are really designed to be centers, the horizontal centers just blended much better with the Fronts.

Sir Mark, allow me to post the impression that I PM'd you yesterday... :)

Honestly, I feel that the FS (Focal Electra 1028) is a bit too loud for it to be used as a center speaker on it's own. Don't get me wrong...it gets the job done, but unlike the CS (Electra 1008 Be), it does cover more area.

It was very much felt on the Berlin Concert BD you popped in to demo. The FS sound was smacked out right straight at us. My msitake was, I did not change seating positions to hear if I was going to hear the same output from a different seating area. But nonetheless, as we did the same material on the CS, you could really hear how enveloping the sound is. Like you said, you could tell the difference better as you were in an awkward sitting area.

I truly feel that the FS could also be a good center speaker, but might be to overpowering to pair up with the fronts. I don't know if Audessey can supress the sound from the FS as not to overpower the fronts, but we have to consider that the FS has it's characteristics of performing how it should perform. I believe Audessey can only do so little to evade it from its main purpose - to be a FS.

I also agree with Hansen when he said that changing the orientation of the CS from it being horizontal in nature can leave gaps in between the fronts and the center, specially on panning scenes.

If I were to decide, based on what I experienced yesterday, I would go with the CS, simply because it is doing it's job that it was meant for it to have been made...to be a CS.

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2073 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 05:55 AM »
Thanks, Martin!  :)
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Offline Stagea

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2074 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 07:39 AM »
Good Morning Sir Mark,

Sorry, I wasn't able to make it last Saturday. Medyo puno ang schedule eh, but I'm glad to hear that the results are in favor of your original choice. Perfect na talaga yung front stage when I heard it. :) The Profiles should take care of the rest. Congrats ulit sa bagong hakot. :)

Earlier today, I did some testing with Audyssey Pro and I couldn't see anything unusual with any speaker so I'm assuming there was no damage done. We are suspecting it was a "soft" clip of the Emotiva amp (200 watts @ 8 ohms and 300 watts @ 4 ohms). The problem is that the speaker crossover point was at 40 Hz and "The Haunting" is really LOUD.

It's truly possible Sir Mark. I can get my audio power amps to clip during transients, when playing at high volumes. Admittedly, I'm running them full range (typical dedicated audio setup). These amps are pretty close to your Emotiva in output (CA 840W rated at 200wpc @ 8 ohms / 350wpc @ 4ohms and Adcom GFA-555SE measured at 232w @ 8 ohms / 332w @ 4 ohms). The only amp I've tried that I was unable to max-out was my friend's Yamaha MX-D1 (this is a very strong amp indeed at a measured 530wpc @ 8 ohms / 590wpc @ 4 ohms). Malaki din talaga tulong ng may extra headroom, in my opinion.

This might be especially true in a room as big as yours. Running a higher crossover frequency may indeed help ease the load for "The Haunting" duties at reference level. :) Perhaps a notch up might solve the issue diba?

Lesson learned -- I have a phobia now of "The Haunting". My New Year's resolution is never to drive my system at indecent sound levels.

We were driving the system so strong that last week, @Stagea thought that I had a butt kicker. Wala problema with the 2 x SVS Ultras and 2 x Paradigm Servo-15 subs. Problem was *probably* the huge Emotiva amps. Hay ....  :'( :'(  Ayoko na!

Yeah, the sofa was vibrating vigorously that it truly felt like something's shaking it.  ;D Kala ko tuloy there was something in there.  :D

Offline nerveblocker

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2075 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 07:53 AM »


Sir Mark, just noticed that your sofa is a standout in your room coz it is not color keyed with the rest of the furniture.

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2076 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 08:13 AM »
It's truly possible Sir Mark. I can get my audio power amps to clip during transients, when playing at high volumes. Admittedly, I'm running them full range (typical dedicated audio setup). These amps are pretty close to your Emotiva in output (CA 840W rated at 200wpc @ 8 ohms / 350wpc @ 4ohms and Adcom GFA-555SE measured at 232w @ 8 ohms / 332w @ 4 ohms). The only amp I've tried that I was unable to max-out was my friend's Yamaha MX-D1 (this is a very strong amp indeed at a measured 530wpc @ 8 ohms / 590wpc @ 4 ohms). Malaki din talaga tulong ng may extra headroom, in my opinion.

This might be especially true in a room as big as yours. Running a higher crossover frequency may indeed help ease the load for "The Haunting" duties at reference level. :) Perhaps a notch up might solve the issue diba?

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm more convinced that the problem was the amp. Payat pala ang 200 watts @ 8 ohms.  ;D ;D

But it depends nga on the room, on how loud you're playing it and on the crossover. Yes, I will kick up the crossovers to a uniform 80 Hz. And as I have solemnly resolved, I will no longer play at indecent levels, even if Mike C is in the house.  ;D ;D
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2077 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 08:42 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm more convinced that the problem was the amp. Payat pala ang 200 watts @ 8 ohms.  ;D ;D

But it depends nga on the room, on how loud you're playing it and on the crossover. Yes, I will kick up the crossovers to a uniform 80 Hz. And as I have solemnly resolved, I will no longer play at indecent levels, even if Mike C is in the house.  ;D ;D

For now?  ;D

Kaya lang naging payat si Emotiva, cuz power hungry lang talaga ang woofers ng FS niyo.  ;)

Offline Stagea

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2078 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 09:45 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm more convinced that the problem was the amp. Payat pala ang 200 watts @ 8 ohms.  ;D ;D

But it depends nga on the room, on how loud you're playing it and on the crossover. Yes, I will kick up the crossovers to a uniform 80 Hz. And as I have solemnly resolved, I will no longer play at indecent levels, even if Mike C is in the house.  ;D ;D

Hindi naman payat sir. Afterall, we don't listen or watch at those levels right?  :) It can still play at very high volume levels, nagkataon lang na it's a step below the 0dB point sa pre-pro. :)

If you wanna isolate if it's the amp, pwede naman 5 XPA-1 amps. 1 monoblock per channel ng front stage (HiFi-style).  ;D When you consider the cost of those speakers, parang mura na lang yung 5 monoblocks. Reduced crosstalk and intermodulation pa diba.  ;D
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 09:48 AM by Stagea »

Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2079 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 10:20 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm more convinced that the problem was the amp. Payat pala ang 200 watts @ 8 ohms.  ;D ;D

as usual sir mark. dibs na ako sa emotiva mo if ever!  ;D

mag monoblock ka na nga. xpa-1 na!  ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2080 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 10:21 AM »
Hindi naman payat sir. Afterall, we don't listen or watch at those levels right?  :) It can still play at very high volume levels, nagkataon lang na it's a step below the 0dB point sa pre-pro. :)

If you wanna isolate if it's the amp, pwede naman 5 XPA-1 amps. 1 monoblock per channel ng front stage (HiFi-style).  ;D When you consider the cost of those speakers, parang mura na lang yung 5 monoblocks. Reduced crosstalk and intermodulation pa diba.  ;D

Kaw talaga pinaka-bad influence sa lahat.  ;D ;D

Proposal mo is worth $5k. Parang overkill. Bibili pa bagong rack uli!

Actually, ang tinitingnan ko is some kind of amp combination which includes the XPA-2.
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 10:22 AM by streetsmart »
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Offline gaol

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2081 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM »
as usual sir mark. dibs na ako sa emotiva mo if ever!  ;D

mag monoblock ka na nga. xpa-1 na!  ;D

Ambilis mo talaga brader! hehehe  ;D

Since my room is less than half the size of your room Mark, and my speakers are not really power hungry, I guess okay pa rin yung emo xpa-5 ko. So far, according to the Omni wattmeter, it rarely goes beyond 300watts at my listening levels. ;)

Offline stickfighter

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2082 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:01 PM »
Kaw talaga pinaka-bad influence sa lahat.  ;D ;D

Proposal mo is worth $5k. Parang overkill. Bibili pa bagong rack uli!

Actually, ang tinitingnan ko is some kind of amp combination which includes the XPA-2.

If ever sir Mark, reserve mo na isang rack mo for me! ;D
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:02 PM by stickfighter »

Offline mike c

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2083 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm more convinced that the problem was the amp. Payat pala ang 200 watts @ 8 ohms.  ;D ;D

But it depends nga on the room, on how loud you're playing it and on the crossover. Yes, I will kick up the crossovers to a uniform 80 Hz. And as I have solemnly resolved, I will no longer play at indecent levels, even if Mike C is in the house.  ;D ;D

bakit ako kasali diyan?   ;D

ang question now is, meron na bang third party tests on the emotiva amp?  was it really producing 200w?  kasi 200w is crazy power na even for that size room.

cough pro amp cough
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:04 PM by mike c »
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2084 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:44 PM »
as usual sir mark. dibs na ako sa emotiva mo if ever!  ;D

mag monoblock ka na nga. xpa-1 na!  ;D

If ever sir Mark, reserve mo na isang rack mo for me! ;D

Bakit kayo parang mga vulture?  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline mike c

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2085 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:47 PM »
Bakit kayo parang mga vulture?  ;D ;D ;D

diba nagbabantay talaga mga vulture sa tira tira ng mga kinakain ng mga Leon ...


Guinto
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2086 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:49 PM »
bakit ako kasali diyan?   ;D

ang question now is, meron na bang third party tests on the emotiva amp?  was it really producing 200w?  kasi 200w is crazy power na even for that size room.

cough pro amp cough

Tama si Mike. You can get a Yamha P2500 professional amp at $420, inclusive of US shipping, from Amazon and have it shipped here by boat. 620 watts output in bridged mode. The only problem -- 110 volts siya. You need a huge transformer.
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Offline mike c

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2087 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 12:54 PM »
Tama si Mike. You can get a Yamha P2500 professional amp at $420, inclusive of US shipping, from Amazon and have it shipped here by boat. 620 watts output in bridged mode. The only problem -- 110 volts siya. You need a huge transformer.

and there are 350w and 450w per channel models too (at 8 ohms)

the advantage of the yamaha P*500S series is that the fans don't run until necessary, and i and other users have never encountered an instance where this was necessary.

i bought locally para 220v ... mas mura pa rin kesa rotel.  catch is manually turning it on and off
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Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2088 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 01:02 PM »
Bakit kayo parang mga vulture?  ;D ;D ;D

ganun talaga yun sir mark, one man's junk is another man's treasure!


diba nagbabantay talaga mga vulture sa tira tira ng mga kinakain ng mga Leon ...


Guinto

bwahaha!!! truly ito sir mike!  ;)

Offline mike c

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2089 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 01:06 PM »
ganun talaga yun sir mark, one man's junk is another man's treasure!


bwahaha!!! truly ito sir mike!  ;)

maraming kinakain kasi yung Leon ng Guintong Manila   ;D
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Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2090 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 02:02 PM »
buti na lang mahina ang pangkagat ko kahit gusto ko kumagat di ko kaya afford, manunuod na lang ako habang pinagtitigisahan ng mga vultures ang natira ng leon sa guinto, ang iintayin ko naman magsawa yung vultures, yun naman ang susunggaban ko ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2091 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 02:04 PM »
Langya talaga kayo! Wala ba kayong mga trabaho? Bakit kayo nanggugulo dito sa matino kong thread??   >:( >:( >:(
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Offline Onkyo606

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2092 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 02:15 PM »
Langya talaga kayo! Wala ba kayong mga trabaho? Bakit kayo nanggugulo dito sa matino kong thread??   >:( >:( >:(

ganun po yata talaga sir mark pag nag iintay ng masisila, laging nakabantay hahahahahaha
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Offline Stagea

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2093 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 03:33 PM »
Kaw talaga pinaka-bad influence sa lahat.  ;D ;D

Proposal mo is worth $5k. Parang overkill. Bibili pa bagong rack uli!

Actually, ang tinitingnan ko is some kind of amp combination which includes the XPA-2.

Nasabi ko lang naman sir para wala nang "what ifs" heheh. Flagship na nila diba.  ;D

Basing kasi sa 8 ohm ratings, the XPA-2 will yield a 1.8dB improvement in headroom against the XPA-5. On the other hand, the XPA-1 will offer a 4.0dB increase. Tempting diba?  ;D

Just ignore me, I'm merely thinking aloud.  ;) Whichever naman ang mapili niyo eh for sure panalo, only the best para sa Leon. :)
« Last Edit: Jan 31, 2011 at 03:37 PM by Stagea »

Offline iiinas

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2094 on: Jan 31, 2011 at 04:18 PM »
Langya talaga kayo! Wala ba kayong mga trabaho? Bakit kayo nanggugulo dito sa matino kong thread??   >:( >:( >:(

naku, nagalit ang leon....


 :-* :-* :-*

Offline ninjababez®

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2095 on: Feb 01, 2011 at 05:03 AM »
If ever sir Mark, reserve mo na isang rack mo for me! ;D
dalawa yun di ba, akin na isa ;D
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Offline stickfighter

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Re: My dream theater
« Reply #2096 on: Feb 01, 2011 at 05:08 AM »
dalawa yun di ba, akin na isa ;D

Correct brader Jams...dalawang rack yon. :) Ok na sir Mark...reserved na yung dalawang rack mo! ;D

Offline streetsmart

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2097 on: Feb 01, 2011 at 08:09 AM »
After thinking about this for a long time, I think I have the answer to the amp issue. Previously, I never experienced speakers popping, only subwoofers blowing. The reason was probably because I was using my older amps, which can actually handle more power than the Emotivas (even my small Bryston can be bridged so that it handles 400 wpc @ 8 ohms).

My only problem is that one of my amps needs to be repaired but once that's done, I'll use the 3 older amps to handle the LCR + Wides. This way, no more need to buy new power amps and racks. I'm sorry, @Iiinas, @Stickfighter and @ninjababez.  ;D
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Offline frootloops

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2098 on: Feb 01, 2011 at 08:19 AM »
Senor..since you are more into concerts and music..how about considering selling your old amps and getting a Lamm Monoblocks instead to power your fronts? I can smell sweet music with your Focals then. ;D

Seriously...your Bryston will definitely do the job.  ;)

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Re: My dream theater - All Focal speaker setup
« Reply #2099 on: Feb 01, 2011 at 08:31 AM »
Senor..since you are more into concerts and music..how about considering selling your old amps and getting a Lamm Monoblocks instead to power your fronts? I can smell sweet music with your Focals then. ;D

Seriously...your Bryston will definitely do the job.  ;)

Actually, weather-weather din ang preference ko. Paminsan music, paminsan movies and quite often a movie followed by a concert clip. $30k yata ang Lam Monoblocks and parang 18 wpc. Medyo kulang power niya, buti na lang.  ;D ;D ;D

Ito ang magandang amp: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=332922&b_id=&find_groupid=18048
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