Topic: Iglesia Ni Cristo - 100years of God's blessings

[jerix]

Ako'y Iglesia Ni Cristo more than anything else.

Keep it up - it is not the faith that is put on scrutiny.

[tony]

Keep it up - it is not the faith that is put on scrutiny.

yes, it is not the faith that is on trial here(by public opinon)...it is the men at the helm....
after all tao lang din naman silang lahat....

[ricky]

^ salamat ulit sa pang unawa.

[Quitacet]

The problem I see is the silence of Ka Eduardo. He can no longer be reached as Ka Angel is saying. But why? It brings to mind the possibility that he is also held hostage by the Sanggunian. He should be heard by the entire INC on the issue but he is not verbally talking. There is also no evidence so far about what Ka Angel is saying. But if he is free, why can he not go outside the perimeters of the INC. Akala ko tiwalag na siya at hindi na Iglesia? it is on these situation when logic tries to wrestle with the claimed truth as advertised. Logic dictates the truth in the absence of an acceptable evidence and proof. The statement of the elder Menorca also brought more questions and have been further muddled by the counter statement by the younger Menorca.

I condole with all the members of the INC. Most of them may have been seeing the truth in the situation but they are hard pressed to side. I see the INC before as infallible and it was beyond my imagination the situation that it is suffering because it is owned by Christ.

Be that as it may, I see by faith the spiritual authority of the Manalos more supreme than the administrative authority of the Sanggunian. I believe that the latter members are the evil that undermines the intentions of the church. Dapat manindigan ang mga INC and expel these evil that wreaks havoc over the church.

Actually Ka Angel is free to go outside if he wants to. The problem is that there is nowhere to go to.

The Manalo's do not have under their names properties of the Iglesia contrary to what people would like to believe. Their house might be the singular place they can reside, which following INC's standards will still be under the property of the Church. Buti nga di sila pinapaalis dun considering na tiwalag na sila.

We have a tanging pagtitipon tonight, and Ka Eduardo will address the congregation via Video conferencing link to various local chapels. It is also said that the nest series of pagsamba will dwell on answering the allegations on corruption.

[pTrader]

Actually Ka Angel is free to go outside if he wants to. The problem is that there is nowhere to go to.

The Manalo's do not have under their names properties of the Iglesia contrary to what people would like to believe. Their house might be the singular place they can reside, which following INC's standards will still be under the property of the Church. Buti nga di sila pinapaalis dun considering na tiwalag na sila.

We have a tanging pagtitipon tonight, and Ka Eduardo will address the congregation via Video conferencing link to various local chapels. It is also said that the nest series of pagsamba will dwell on answering the allegations on corruption.

Looking at this issue, and in light with the early church, how did the apostles resolve this kind of case?

[GIJoe]

Is this true?
http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/100445-iglesia-leaders-billions-pesos-aircraft

[jerix]

I dont see any problem with the INC using aircraft in going around the world. It is a problem when in using those facilities the cost or expenses are bloated and amount of money are stashed away by those few in the organization.

[praktikal]

I dont see any problem with the INC using aircraft in going around the world. It is a problem when in using those facilities the cost or expenses are bloated and amount of money are stashed to away by those few in the organization.

+1

[tony]

i remember an LP senator, Avelino....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Avelino

what are we in power for?

[jerix]

The Manalo's do not have under their names properties of the Iglesia contrary to what people would like to believe. Their house might be the singular place they can reside, which following INC's standards will still be under the property of the Church. Buti nga di sila pinapaalis dun considering na tiwalag na sila.

This is one reason why I admire the INC. Walang anumang property ang pag-aari ng mga Manalo. Di sila personally nagpayaman, They can use the facilities but they dont own it. So kaawa-awa talaga ang kapalaran ng mag-iina na natiwalag kasi yun nga, wala silang pupuntahan. They knew where they stand in the first place and that they could go nowhere. Their coming out to divulge issues is not easy because they will be clashing with the more powerful Sanggunian but they did it maybe because of some insuperable cause.

[pTrader]

This is one reason why I admire the INC. Walang anumang property ang pag-aari ng mga Manalo. Di sila personally nagpayaman, They can use the facilities but they dont own it. So kaawa-awa talaga ang kapalaran ng mag-iina na natiwalag kasi yun nga, wala silang pupuntahan. They knew where they stand in the first place and that they could go nowhere. Their coming out to divulge issues is not easy because they will be clashing with the more powerful Sanggunian but they did it maybe because of some insuperable cause.

sensya na ha.. pero wala sialng Accountabilities, yan ba yung masasabi dito?

[jerix]

sensya na ha.. pero wala sialng Accountabilities, yan ba yung masasabi dito?

Care to explain bro on what you mean on "accountabilities" - thanks

[pTrader]

Care to explain bro on what you mean on "accountabilities" - thanks

Walang anumang property ang pag-aari ng mga Manalo

kung wala silang properties then walang ownership.. walang ownership walang accountabilities.

[jerix]

Yup - correct this is what I also have heard. Wala silang pag-aari na separate na galing sa INC as a special privilege being the descendant of Felix Manalo, the founder of the INC, maliban sa kanilang napundar that comes from their compensation as employees of the INC na kagaya din ng ibang mga ministro at workers.

[pTrader]

Yup - correct this is what I also have heard. Wala silang pag-aari na separate na galing sa INC as a special privilege being the descendant of Felix Manalo, the founder of the INC, maliban sa kanilang napundar that comes from their compensation as employees of the INC na kagaya din ng ibang mga ministro at workers.

Kung Corporate ownership ata yung sinasabe mo may ownersip pa rin...

[jerix]

Speaking of Corporate ownership, i believe they have the same rights with the entire INC population. 

[barrister]

I dont see any problem with the INC using aircraft in going around the world. It is a problem when in using those facilities the cost or expenses are bloated and amount of money are stashed away by those few in the organization.

Tama yan.  Bumili o nag lease lang ng plane, hindi puwedeng corruption na agad.

Pero very likely na nagkaroon ng tongpats yan sa releasing ng bayad.  Yan dapat ang tutok ng auditing, hanap ka ng padding sa payments/expenses.

Pero so far, walang ganong ebidensiya, kaya haka-haka lang yon. Hindi puwedeng press release agad si Angel na may corruption kung wala naman siyang maipakitang evidence.

[devlin_waugh]

^the article made mention of corporate operations that were based in the Caymans, that's already a red flag there because they're trying to dodge PH authorities and consequent scrutiny and disclosure/compliance requirements

INC also has a chapter there:

http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.com/2014/05/inc-directory-cayman-islands.html

The Caymans is a known haven for tax evasion, illicit flows, and stolen wealth

[rulesmeister]

Overkill na masyado ung Airbus A330, pang mass transport na yan, gamit ng mga malalaking passenger Airliners. If you're an average member na nagco-commute lang using tricycle, jeepney, padyak, kuliglig etc going to your church, you would cry foul if a few of those in the higher positions is using a very huge private plane in their travels. Would you think na pagdating nila sa US or saan mang bansa they would just settle for a boarding house or a motel given sa excesses nila in travelling? Chances are nasa mga 5-star hotels ung accommodation nila and also they would dine on high-end restaurants and driven in a limo.

I work in a multinational company and we have several production sites outside the Philippines (Belgium, Japan, US, Malaysia, China, Vietnam, Czech Republic), the CEO & some personalities has to travel regularly to all these places but he only uses a passenger airliner since wala namang private plane ung company namin although we are a multi-billion dollar company.     

 

[devlin_waugh]

^yup otherwise they would be flagged for potential violations of the US FCPA or UK Bribery Act...

[pTrader]

Overkill na masyado ung Airbus A330, pang mass transport na yan, gamit ng mga malalaking passenger Airliners. If you're an average member na nagco-commute lang using tricycle, jeepney, padyak, kuliglig etc going to your church, you would cry foul if a few of those in the higher positions is using a very huge private plane in their travels. Would you think na pagdating nila sa US or saan mang bansa they would just settle for a boarding house or a motel given sa excesses nila in travelling? Chances are nasa mga 5-star hotels ung accommodation nila and also they would dine on high-end restaurants and driven in a limo.

I work in a multinational company and we have several production sites outside the Philippines (Belgium, Japan, US, Malaysia, China, Vietnam, Czech Republic), the CEO & some personalities has to travel regularly to all these places but he only uses a passenger airliner since wala namang private plane ung company namin although we are a multi-billion dollar company.     

 

ibig sabihin yung mga lagak dito lang napupunta?

[rulesmeister]

ibig sabihin yung mga lagak dito lang napupunta?

Ganun na nga, they have an Airbus A330 (~$230M) & a Boeing 737 (~$80M) thats close to P14 billion for the price of both aircraft units. Add fuel, maintenance cost and the entire cost of ownership.

I dont think its an issue, after all that's their (INC) money anyway, it will only become an issue if these excesses are kept in secrecy from the majority of the INC members or if someone from their group cries foul and immediately gets booted out just for disagreeing.     

[jerix]

Its actually martial law inside the INC justified by a certain doctrine that he whoever will not submit will be cut off just like the drying branch of a tree. This make sense biblically. But the problem is when those who are swerving are those who are in power and the implementors themselves. As members would not like to be cut off and eventually ex communicated they are forced to swallow what is fed. I feel that there is actually a rebellion going on in the heart and mind of the INCs. But knowing their discipline, their collective implosion holds up to now.  However, very obvious effect of this rebellion is the reported decrease of the "abuloys" in the hundreds of thousands in many localities, as reported.  Without the issues cleared, I believe it is really just a matter of time.

[tony]

Its actually martial law inside the INC justified by a certain doctrine that he whoever will not submit will be cut off just like the drying branch of a tree. This make sense biblically. But the problem is when those who are swerving are those who are in power and the implementors themselves. As members would not like to be cut off and eventually ex communicated they are forced to swallow what is fed. I feel that there is actually a rebellion going on in the heart and mind of the INCs. But knowing their discipline, their collective implosion holds up to now.  However, very obvious effect of this rebellion is the reported decrease of the "abuloys" in the hundreds of thousands in many localities, as reported.  Without the issues cleared, I believe it is really just a matter of time.

dangerous doctrine.....without grievance mechanisms in place,
any organization will tend to explode.....
this was how more than 700 people ended up murdered in Guyana...
at the hands of cult leader Jim Jones....

the leaders in any church are not saints, tao rin lang sila subject to human frailties....
if i were in their place, i could have built schools and hospitals and housing for poor members instead...
but then i would not know what ideas my wife will have....she even might have relatives..

church members are people too, endowed by God with a free will and a spirit yearning to be free...
with conscience...there is a fine line with becoming a member and a freemen....

[rulesmeister]

Its actually martial law inside the INC justified by a certain doctrine that he whoever will not submit will be cut off just like the drying branch of a tree. This make sense biblically. But the problem is when those who are swerving are those who are in power and the implementors themselves. As members would not like to be cut off and eventually ex communicated they are forced to swallow what is fed. I feel that there is actually a rebellion going on in the heart and mind of the INCs. But knowing their discipline, their collective implosion holds up to now.  However, very obvious effect of this rebellion is the reported decrease of the "abuloys" in the hundreds of thousands in many localities, as reported.  Without the issues cleared, I believe it is really just a matter of time.

Unfair naman itong "martial law" Sir. So the only way (for them) to enter heaven in the afterlife is to keep their mouth shut and ignore that a few people in the higher positions had all these fancy high-end material things while the majority had to make do with whatever small income they had and still provide "abuloys" to maintain the lifestyle of their superiors. After all, these few people hold the key to their "salvation".

Honestly, I do feel for the average members since ung Ate ko nasa INC din. I guess this the main reason why Anthony Taberna chose to be silent despite magnitude of the issue. Yet his comments are combative and explosive on many issues that are far way lesser than what their church is currently facing.           

[jerix]

Maybe I was just over reacting with that term Martial Law. Sorry if that is too much. But anyway I know you understand my point. My daughter is also an INC, of course I allowed her when she asked permission to join. But even now I can not discuss to her matters concerning the INC problem. She just doesnt want to say anything, I think they are prohibited from talking.

[dpogs]

just imagine kung democracy ang patakaran sa isang simbahan... gulo mangyayari

[panzimus]

Why won't democracy works sa isang simbahan?

[tony]

Why won't democracy works sa isang simbahan?

as far as doctrine is concerned, there is no democracy there, either you are in or you are out....
but in other matters, they can be discussed and agreed upon...
but if doctrines are used to impose minority will on what the majority of the members
percieve as excessive, then me problema...

[panzimus]

as far as doctrine is concerned, there is no democracy there, either you are in or you are out....
but in other matters, they can be discussed and agreed upon...
but if doctrines are used to impose minority will on what the majority of the members
percieve as excessive, then me problema...

Agree. Di pa din naman talaga total lack of democracy.