Topic: Iglesia Ni Cristo - 100years of God's blessings

[kidlat08]

may question po ako sa INC na matagal ko na pinagiisipan. Ano pong reason kung bakit ang lahat ng naging pinaka-Head ng INC ay galing sa pamilyang Manalo? Wala po bang ibang worthy na tao outside of the Manalo lineage to head INC?

Before Bro Felix passed away, they held an election as to who will replace him as leader. And the minister that got the highest number of votes was Bro Erdy. Alam ko po yan dahil ang election na yan ay naging public knowledge sa mga miyembro noon ng Iglesia. Hindi po yan inilihim.

Now as to Bro Eduardo's leadership, hindi ko na po masasagot kung dumaan din po sa ganung proseso ang pagpili sa kanya bilang Leader.
 

[Quitacet]

from what i hear from my cousin who's an INC member pupuntahan ka sa bahay kung di ka naka-attend ng samba. ang question ko is, do you really need to do the interview?

Yes, we call it dalaw or to the process, pagdadalaw.

Pagdadalaw is two-fold, when a member missed a service, he will be visited. If the member has problems, the officer (katiwala ng grupo, sort of like a baranggay councillor to a baranggay as reference so you will get the analogy in the hierarchy of office) will try to help the member and pray for him/her.

It is not true na sinisingil sa abuloy. Karaniwan pa nga kung ang kapatid ay may suliranin sa pera (nawalan ng trabaho, at nagipit kaya di nakadalo), kung may loob ang katiwala, nagbibigay pa sa member para makatawid.

If the member does not want to be visited, pwede naman at kung ayaw ma nya sa Iglesia, kidlat is right in posting he needs to do a written declaration that he is leaving the Church para walang sisihan sa huli na wala naman siyang ginagawang masama pero natiwalag siya.

[Quitacet]

what if i don't want to give an explanation?

...of not attending the Church services?

there is a process for that.

1. kung talagang ayaw mo na sa INC, you can make a salaysay to say ayaw mo na.
2. kung ayaw mo magsalaysay, dadalawin ka at patuloy kang papayuhan.
3. kung matagal ka na talagang hindi sumasamba, dadalawin ka pa rin at papayuhan
4. pag after so many times na talagang ayaw mo na sumamba inspite of the advices and attempt to help you deal with problems if you have any, there will be a deliveration among local congregation's officers, and if the decision is still to give you a chance, numbers 2-3 will continue.
5. If the decision is they were convinced na talagang ayaw mo na despite the lack of a written statement and because of the time given to you, aalisin ang pangalan mo sa talaan at yung tarheta mo na pinipihit during services ay aalisin na sa pwesto nya. in short, tiwalag ka na.

If you want to return to the Church, that's what we call, pagbabalik-loob, there's also a process to that.

[sovrain]

^yun bang natiwalag ay dinadalaw din para magbalik loob? Meron din bang natiwalag na gustong bumalik pero inaayawan or hindi na tatanggapin? Just a thought lang po..

[rochie]

^yun bang natiwalag ay dinadalaw din para magbalik loob? Meron din bang natiwalag na gustong bumalik pero inaayawan or hindi na tatanggapin? Just a thought lang po..

lahat po ng natiwalag na gustong magbalik loob ay tinatanggap po sa isang kundisyon na kung ano man ang naging dahilan ng pagkakatiwalag mo ay iiwan mo yun at magbabagong buhay ka na. pag natiwalag na po hindi na dinadalaw(officially) ng katiwala pero meron ako kilala na natiwalag pero dinadalaw pa din sya pero ng mga kamag-anak na nya para pagpayuhan kung ano man ang naging dahilan ng kanyang pagkakatiwalag at yun ang nagiging dahilan ng kanilang pagbabalik loob.

[Quitacet]

^yun bang natiwalag ay dinadalaw din para magbalik loob? Meron din bang natiwalag na gustong bumalik pero inaayawan or hindi na tatanggapin? Just a thought lang po..

hindi na po dalaw technically ang tawag pag tiwalag na kundi akay na. Akay is the term used when one member invites a non-member to attend services or bible studies.

pag natiwalag pwede akayin ulit para umanib kung gusto ng aakayin.

yup, pwede bumalik if you want pero "susubukin" ulit, sa pamamagitan ng continuous pagdalo sa mga pagsamba

sa hindi balik loob na nagpapamyembro, sinusubok din sila, after maturuan ng doktrina, 6 months kang sasamba. kung ayaw mo ituloy, pwede din. walang pilitan. kusang loob, kaya nga sinusubok muna para hangga't maari maiwasan yung nagpapamember dahil lang sa ibang dahilan : may nililigawan.

mahirap itaguyod ang 6 months na pagsamba kung iba ang layunin sa paganib

[Quitacet]

hindi na po dalaw technically ang tawag pag tiwalag na kundi akay na. Akay is the term used when one member invites a non-member to attend services or bible studies.

pag natiwalag pwede akayin ulit para umanib kung gusto ng aakayin.

yup, pwede bumalik if you want pero "susubukin" ulit, sa pamamagitan ng continuous pagdalo sa mga pagsamba. kaya against the death penalty ang INC. it believes na pwedeng magbagong buhay ang sinuman

sa hindi balik loob na nagpapamyembro, sinusubok din sila, after maturuan ng doktrina, 6 months kang sasamba. kung ayaw mo ituloy, pwede din. walang pilitan. kusang loob, kaya nga sinusubok muna para hangga't maari maiwasan yung nagpapamember dahil lang sa ibang dahilan : may nililigawan.

mahirap itaguyod ang 6 months na pagsamba kung iba ang layunin sa paganib

[Cruzader1986]

https://phillipgarcia.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/behind-the-iglesia-ni-cristos-king-maker-role-a-chain-of-crimes-and-mythical-numbers


100 years of Blessing ba kamo?

[sovrain]

@rochie & quitacet, thanks...mahirap pala ang bumalik. Kaya ko naitanong yan, may kakilala kasi na kinakantyawan namin na di na sya makakabalik, pero malakas ang loob nya na at ipagyayabang na kaya nya makabalik. That was several years ago....pero hanggang ngayon yata e di pa rin nakabalik, may bisyo yata na di nya matangga tanggal...

[rochie]

@rochie & quitacet, thanks...mahirap pala ang bumalik. Kaya ko naitanong yan, may kakilala kasi na kinakantyawan namin na di na sya makakabalik, pero malakas ang loob nya na at ipagyayabang na kaya nya makabalik. That was several years ago....pero hanggang ngayon yata e di pa rin nakabalik, may bisyo yata na di nya matangga tanggal...

actually madali lang,ang mahirap lang talaga ay iwan yung mga gawain na pinagbabawal. para din naman yang yung mga materyal na bagay,pag gusto natin pagsisikapang makamit madaming nababago sa pamumuhay para lang makuha ang gusto.

[leomarley]

actually madali lang,ang mahirap lang talaga ay iwan yung mga gawain na pinagbabawal. para din naman yang yung mga materyal na bagay,pag gusto natin pagsisikapang makamit madaming nababago sa pamumuhay para lang makuha ang gusto.

Just curious what are these things na pinagbabawal?

[jerix]

They kept on choosing a Manalo because Felix Manalo I believe was supposed to be "a chosen by God leader." As he was chosen, then the descendants should bear that mark. The church is growing not just the doctrine maybe but because it is headed by a Manalo. I can not imagine how people of the INC would react if Eduardo Manalo will be replaced by another personality becuase he was voted out. Now, considering events, after Eduardo Manalo who do you think should they put in power, Anybody?

[tony]

^^and to think that his younger brother is now openly critical of the INC....quo vadis?

how will they handle an INC without a Manalo at the helm, what happens to the proclamation that Manalo ang huling sugo.....?

[jerix]

Angel's wrath is not with the INC but the "SANGGUNIAN" who seems to be in command. The force in between Ka Eduardo and the Ka Angel camp is the sanggunian. I do not want to believe that Ka Eduardo refuses to talk to them. The problem containment the sanggunian is doing just like the denial of the abduction by the supposed to be victim brings so many questions.

[tony]

^but the SANGUNIAN thinks that to criticize them is to criticize the INC, simply because in the INC they rule and their word is law...

dumaan dn sa ganyang phase ang mga unang katoliko ng middle ages...isang phase na pinagdadaanan ng kahit anu mang samahan...

[Quitacet]

They kept on choosing a Manalo because Felix Manalo I believe was supposed to be "a chosen by God leader." As he was chosen, then the descendants should bear that mark. The church is growing not just the doctrine maybe but because it is headed by a Manalo. I can not imagine how people of the INC would react if Eduardo Manalo will be replaced by another personality becuase he was voted out. Now, considering events, after Eduardo Manalo who do you think should they put in power, Anybody?

^^and to think that his younger brother is now openly critical of the INC....quo vadis?

how will they handle an INC without a Manalo at the helm, what happens to the proclamation that Manalo ang huling sugo.....?

FYM is huling Sugo but not the last minister. I guess if somebody (even not a Manalo) will be elected by the ministers then the Church will abide just as long as the doctrines will remain in force and enforced. The doctrine is of primary importance to the Church, and part of that doctrine is "pagpapasakop" sa Pamamahala ng Church.

[tony]

imho, if they choose another, not a Manalo to lead the INC, then the anointment will not be from God but by a council composed of men....

[jerix]

FYM is huling Sugo but not the last minister. I guess if somebody (even not a Manalo) will be elected by the ministers then the Church will abide just as long as the doctrines will remain in force and enforced. The doctrine is of primary importance to the Church, and part of that doctrine is "pagpapasakop" sa Pamamahala ng Church.

I could not imagine how the church people would accept a situation where after Eduardo Manalo another personality just like Zabala or Santiago or Santos of the Sanggunian would be placed in the helm of power while the other Manalos who are the direct descendants of the "huling sugo"are outside the Iglesia ni Cristo. I would like to think that credibility wise, these Manalo descendants commands greater influence.

[Quitacet]

imho, if they choose another, not a Manalo to lead the INC, then the anointment will not be from God but by a council composed of men....

Not really since men are used by God to do various things for him. After Christ died, many assumed Peter became the first pope (I disagree with this) and after him until Pope Francis, di naman direktang God ang naglalagay sa pwesto ng Pope di ba? considering na the Pope is supposed to be the Vicar of Christ.

Sa INC ang Executive Minister is not Jesus' vicar naman e, kaya from the term, Minister pa din.

[Quitacet]

I could not imagine how the church people would accept a situation where after Eduardo Manalo another personality just like Zabala or Santiago or Santos of the Sanggunian would be placed in the helm of power while the other Manalos who are the direct descendants of the "huling sugo"are outside the Iglesia ni Cristo. I would like to think that credibility wise, these Manalo descendants commands greater influence.

Yes and frankly I could not imagine such a scenario also, but we are talking of possibilities here and they are endless.

[TonyC]

They kept on choosing a Manalo because Felix Manalo I believe was supposed to be "a chosen by God leader." As he was chosen, then the descendants should bear that mark. The church is growing not just the doctrine maybe but because it is headed by a Manalo. I can not imagine how people of the INC would react if Eduardo Manalo will be replaced by another personality becuase he was voted out. Now, considering events, after Eduardo Manalo who do you think should they put in power, Anybody?

An INC spoke person once mentioned that the INC is not a family corporation.  I'd like to believe that Even without a Manalo the INC will still survive as theirs is based on teachings of the bible and not on teachings developed by Manalo.  Let's hope everything turn out well for them in the coming days.

[rochie]

An INC spoke person once mentioned that the INC is not a family corporation.  I'd like to believe that Even without a Manalo the INC will still survive as theirs is based on teachings of the bible and not on teachings developed by Manalo.  Let's hope everything turn out well for them in the coming days.

tama Sir Tony, at saka kung talagang Manalo lang ang dapat mamuno eh hindi sana dapat tiniwalag yung magkapatid na Angel at Marc kasi pareho silang Manalo at ministro at sila "sana" ang next in line sa pamumuno,para sa amin isa lang to sa mga pagsubok at pag-uusig na nararanasan namin sa loob ng Iglesia. naituro na sa amin noon pa na ang mga pag-uusig at pagsubok ay hindi lang manggagaling sa labas kundi maging sa loob, hindi lang namin inaasahan na manggagaling iyon sa mga Manalo, nasa doktrina naman ang paniniwala namin hindi galing sa apelyido kaya kahit sino ang mamuno basta naaayon sa doktrina walang magiging problema.

[jerix]

Ka Angel and Ka Tenny are not children to come out with flimsy reasons. Members of the INC have been called by them just to listen and they are doing this so the church will reform. They are not i believe questioning the faith, they are just questioning how the Sanggunian is running the church. It is a question on the affairs of man and not of the affairs relative to the faith. The irony: Church people are more afraid of the "tiwalag" done by man, rather than the more divine aim of cleansing the church people who runs the church. The Sanggunian was clever and  quick. They immediately removed the rebelling Manalos for their "hindi pakikiisa sa layunin."

I am wondering why that ground has been invoked very easily. They tagged them liars so anybody who would show support to the Ka Angel and Ka Tenny will meet the same fate as they would be charged for cohabiting with liars. The issues should have been confronted. But here's the question, What if the allegation of corruption is true? what if the Sanggunian is siphoning the finances of the INC for their own interests? Should all INC act as blind followers and just close their ears?

I adored the INC for sometime. I even allowed my daughter to be a member and supported her INC activities. Because doctrine wise, I believe even with my own logic. I had the same fate as the rebelling Manalos. I was still a kid when our entire family was kicked out because my father run in an election going against the candidate the INC decided to support. I asked why did they include me and the rest of my family, I was not even a voter.They said because we are one family. At that age my mind was rebelling.If this is true then.. GOD is cruel.

Using the same argument, if the intention of God is to designate Felix Manalo as the last 'sugo" then that spiritual and divine authority and anointment must run with the family. What your Ka Angel and Ka Tenny are saying should not be dismissed if you are true to your faith. I know a part of you brothers in the INC is also asking. You know the answer but you are afraid to face it. I believe that our conscience is our true faith. I know so many members of the INC. They cant talk but just as you... they are carrying a very heavy heart.

[Quitacet]

Ka Angel and Ka Tenny are not children to come out with flimsy reasons. Members of the INC have been called by them just to listen and they are doing this so the church will reform. They are not i believe questioning the faith, they are just questioning how the Sanggunian is running the church. It is a question on the affairs of man and not of the affairs relative to the faith. The irony: Church people are more afraid of the "tiwalag" done by man, rather than the more divine aim of cleansing the church people who runs the church. The Sanggunian was clever and  quick. They immediately removed the rebelling Manalos for their "hindi pakikiisa sa layunin."

I am wondering why that ground has been invoked very easily. They tagged them liars so anybody who would show support to the Ka Angel and Ka Tenny will meet the same fate as they would be charged for cohabiting with liars. The issues should have been confronted. But here's the question, What if the allegation of corruption is true? what if the Sanggunian is siphoning the finances of the INC for their own interests? Should all INC act as blind followers and just close their ears?

I adored the INC for sometime. I even allowed my daughter to be a member and supported her INC activities. Because doctrine wise, I believe even with my own logic. I had the same fate as the rebelling Manalos. I was still a kid when our entire family was kicked out because my father run in an election going against the candidate the INC decided to support. I asked why did they include me and the rest of my family, I was not even a voter.They said because we are one family. At that age my mind was rebelling.If this is true then.. GOD is cruel.

Using the same argument, if the intention of God is to designate Felix Manalo as the last 'sugo" then that spiritual and divine authority and anointment must run with the family. What your Ka Angel and Ka Tenny are saying should not be dismissed if you are true to your faith. I know a part of you brothers in the INC is also asking. You know the answer but you are afraid to face it. I believe that our conscience is our true faith. I know so many members of the INC. They cant talk but just as you... they are carrying a very heavy heart.

I agree with you. I for one believes that Ka Tenny and Ka Angel along with the other expelled Ministers must have some basis for putting their membership on the line because of what they believed in.

Some members are just and still waiting for proof of the allegations.

Even in a local congregation's affairs, the INC is strict in one member labelling another with an accusation that can not be supported by proof and evidences.

Example: If I spread my allegation that one particular member is engaged, say in adulterous relationship, with another member (or even if the person is not a member), I have to back my allegations with proof, otherwise I will be guilty of paghahatid-dumapit or tsismis in the modern parlance which is an evil act in the Church.

If the evidences come out, rest assured that many members will rally for the truth.

The other thing that made the case of Ka Angel and Ka Tenny is that of their "Hostage" and "Help us" pleas that turned out to be false. They were hoping that the brethren will rally behind them especially Ka Tenny who turned out not to be in the house purportedly where they were being held hostage. The "weak" alibi of a child or children who did the signs of "hostage kami, etc" is so unbelievable that they lost some credibility there.

[ricky]

I still believe in the power of prayers. It is a sensitive issue that should have not been brought out publicly that hastely without them talking first to ka Eduardo. Ka Angel should have known better.

Now with the allegations that have been cast against certain individuals, whether its true or not, they should have come to their senses and if they are really an IGLESIA NI CRISTO should have step down from their positions muna. Sana wag nila ilagay sa alanganing puwesto ang tagapamahala. Sana umiral pa din ang delikadeza.

Ako'y Iglesia Ni Cristo more than anything else.

[devlin_waugh]

It is a sensitive issue that should have not been brought out publicly that hastely without them talking first to ka Eduardo. Ka Angel should have known better.

Secrecy and confidentiality only lets corruption fester, transparency and accountability disinfects and even enables a corruption-intolerant organization

[tony]

in a very big organization, you can not keep any secrets,
people will see, people will know, finally people will talk....
Pilpino pa....

[rochie]

actually I'm excited to see the evidence of the alleged corruption.

[jerix]

The problem I see is the silence of Ka Eduardo. He can no longer be reached as Ka Angel is saying. But why? It brings to mind the possibility that he is also held hostage by the Sanggunian. He should be heard by the entire INC on the issue but he is not verbally talking. There is also no evidence so far about what Ka Angel is saying. But if he is free, why can he not go outside the perimeters of the INC. Akala ko tiwalag na siya at hindi na Iglesia? it is on these situation when logic tries to wrestle with the claimed truth as advertised. Logic dictates the truth in the absence of an acceptable evidence and proof. The statement of the elder Menorca also brought more questions and have been further muddled by the counter statement by the younger Menorca.

I condole with all the members of the INC. Most of them may have been seeing the truth in the situation but they are hard pressed to side. I see the INC before as infallible and it was beyond my imagination the situation that it is suffering because it is owned by Christ.

Be that as it may, I see by faith the spiritual authority of the Manalos more supreme than the administrative authority of the Sanggunian. I believe that the latter members are the evil that undermines the intentions of the church. Dapat manindigan ang mga INC and expel these evil that wreaks havoc over the church.

[tony]

actually I'm excited to see the evidence of the alleged corruption.

the alleged corruption is the lifestyle of the men in the council and their wives....
come to think about it, ano nga naman ang gagawin sa limpak-limpak na salapi...
it they can afford it naman....