Topic: Plasma vs LCD ?

[alvinh]

Of course, what differentiates PinoyDVD members from kids is that we have the tendency to be more “childish” in scrutinizing every single aspect of an image beyond practicality.

Having read your comments just confirmed that I have made the right choice flat panel based on my application. Thanks.
Of course, because hard earned money is the key to purchasing our gears outside the WAF (to some), we simply want to come close to "perfection" as much as possible.
I think this is when practicality sometimes get overlooked.

[raptor]

You are absolutely right.   Cable TV/regular TV is anytime, anywhere and we have all been spoilt by the CRT for being such an all-lighting condition TV.  A plasma buyer should simply accept beforehand that he should provide some kind of illumination control in the TV room to maximize the viewing quality whether it be daytime or nightime.   It may be inconvenient to install additional curtains to dim the room or block sunlight or reduce reflections during the day, but it would be silly not to use an HDTV properly. (this is particularly important for the top of the line Panasonic which has full glass (glossy) face design - however judging from the other models, the panels per se have become less reflective compared to old gen ones), Right out of the box, the LCD should be the more convenient choice because you don’t have to change anything in the viewing room.  In fact, you should maintain sufficient lighting while watching on an LCD in order to prevent excessive eyestrain as the image may be too bright.

I think I’ve posted this somewhere but in my opinion, the most important criteria is which “image quality” you and your family prefer under proper lighting conditions based on your intended usage and other video contents that you will have ready access to.  I agree with you that the quality of cable and broadcast in the Philippines is quite appalling.  So until HD broadcast begins in the Philippines, I’m positive that Plasma is more suitable to what is available (legally or otherwise) in our country.  But again, you have to control your room illumination especially during the day.  I'm not implying that LCD would be the better choice for HD broadcast, but under such conditions, the odds would even out and the choice becomes even harder and more "content-to-content dependent".  Me thinks.

Based on the latest offerings of Panasonic, it’s pretty obvious that making the Plasma image look “brighter” is one of the improvements that their engineers are working on. Afterall, many people are now wanting to make their houses naturally bright during the day.  I think Nemesis has already posted somewhere that the difference between the 8 series and the 7 series is “matapang ang kulay” (if I remember it correctly).  In my observation, the 8 series plasmas are not only matingkad, but they seem to appear brighter than their predecessor under the same lighting condition; still not as bright as LCDs though.

On the other hand, you don’t have to look at the specs to be convinced that everytime a new iteration of LCD is released by renowned makes, it is obviously more colorful than previous models.   Reds are becoming less magenta (especially for Sonys), blacks are moving closer to the dark side.  Unfortunately, LCD engineers are not at all interested in improving the SD image out of an HDTV LCD.  What’s the point in doing that anyway ne?  In any case, the LCD color saturation may not still be as “true” as that of Plasma, but colors do not have to be highly accurate to perceive moving high def images as “beautiful.”  Bring 10 kids to an electronic store and let them choose between the colorful but dim plasma against the unnatural but bright LCD both showing images in their high def glory.  Which do you think they would choose?

Of course, what differentiates PinoyDVD members from kids is that we have the tendency to be more “childish” in scrutinizing every single aspect of an image beyond practicality.

All I know is that puede akong magluto, maglaba, magplantsa, magsulat, magbasa, kumain ng lunch while watching on an LCD, while I have to chill out in subdued light when watching on a plasma.    ...and I'm trying to develop the habit to "really watch" while the Plasma is on because medyo mataas ang power rating ng full HD plasma.  Taas kamay ng mahilig mag-on ng TV all day kahit hindi naman talaga pinapanood or pasilip silip lang or nakikinig lang sa news/sound.    

Sir,

i'm quite a new plasma tv user - i have a 2-month old Panasonic 42pv8 ... my reservations prior to purchasing the plasma technology was the reviews i read about the requirement to have a dimly lit room to obtain the optimum picture quality and the reflectiveness of the screen surface - i'm not sure if the reflectiveness is tied-up to the requirement for a dimly lit room, but i noticed this when i previewed the older 42pv70 at S&S.

i am leaning towards the plasma technology though because of the rave reviews that 42pv70 has gotten in this forum ...when the new series panasonic plasma (8-series) became available, i have read a lot of positive feedback that the new panel works well even on bright environments ...those reviews triggered my decision to finally buy the 42pv8, and i can personally attest that it works well even on a well lighted environment ... the primary use of my plasma tv is cable tv (around 80-85% of the time) -my mom loves to watch noon time shows on our well-lighted living room, and no complaints .... the plasma tv is huge improvement on cable tv viewing compared to my old 29-inch flat crt tv (well-lighted or dark room environment) ...one of the biggest factor in my case for choosing the plasma tech over lcd is actually cable tv viewing - i'm not impressed with lcd when it comes to cable tv (been using a 22-inch samsung lcd for over 2 years now).

based on my personal opinion (not an expert review), the notion that plasma is only good on dark rooms is probably a thing of the past - improvements in the panel manufacturing and technology may have solved this... we're quite impressed with PQ even when watching on well-lighted rooms (this is in comparison with the all-rounder crt technology)

just like to mention that i'm no lcd hater ... i love the PQ of my samsung lcd for connection to my htpc, playing games, and other stuff ... my take is that for cable tv viewing and movies - plasma / for htpc, gaming, and movies as well - lcd...my reason for not recommending plasma on gaming and htpc is the IR or burn-in image that a lot has been talking about - haven't experience this on  my unit, but why risk it?

[Clondalkin]

It's not necessary to go "dark" on a plasma.   I for one definitely cannot stand dark viewing as I would get dizzy before even finishing a 1-hour show.   Panasonic (Japan) mentions in their Japanese living room TV selection guide that plasma image should look great under 75-150 lux (those into photography can use their lux meter to check the illumination level in their TV room).   In my observation, Phil houses at night tend to be darker than Japan's  because on the average, the houses/rooms are bigger and wider, the ceilings are higher and the lighting fixtures are less.   But during the day, some houses can be very bright or very dark depending on the design and the locations of windows relative to sunlight.

As I mentioned above, I observed that the newer Plasma's are using less reflective panels than older ones and their images are, in general, relatively brighter hence should have improved performance in the daylight.    However, my particular plasma model (PZ800) has got a very glossy full glass surface (it looks like a thin film of glass all over the panel and the frame).  It looks sleek, it looks elegant, images are great,  but it has the tendency to act like a "dark mirror" especially during the day, or when the scene is dark, or when there is lighting at my back, or when my room is too bright with fixtures or with sunlight through the window.    Maybe the overseas equivalent model (PY800) has got a similar finish, so please take note.   But again, the other Panasonic models have panels that almost look like LCDs when not turned on, that I even had to touch the panel to verify that it was made of hard glass and not softy LCD.   The thing is, reflective TV's have always been with us since the CRT days and our reflections have always been on TV. It's just that we grew up with 14, 17 or 21 inch glasses watching from 8 feet or further away, but now, we have to face flat glass surfaces that are at least twice as big, AND, we are quite more observant of the image on the screen, that we tend to notice things other than the image itself.

[danrd]

Had the chance to see the 50PY850 at TW Trinoma earlier this day.  Ganda ng PQ and color and the Motion is simply awesome. Its the thing that I desire most in a flat display. But Clondalkin was right. You'll really have to consider the reflection but it really appears like a big dark mirror.

[ninjababez®]

It's not necessary to go "dark" on a plasma.   I for one definitely cannot stand dark viewing as I would get dizzy before even finishing a 1-hour show.   Panasonic (Japan) mentions in their Japanese living room TV selection guide that plasma image should look great under 75-150 lux (those into photography can use their lux meter to check the illumination level in their TV room).   In my observation, Phil houses at night tend to be darker than Japan's  because on the average, the houses/rooms are bigger and wider, the ceilings are higher and the lighting fixtures are less.   But during the day, some houses can be very bright or very dark depending on the design and the locations of windows relative to sunlight.

As I mentioned above, I observed that the newer Plasma's are using less reflective panels than older ones and their images are, in general, relatively brighter hence should have improved performance in the daylight.    However, my particular plasma model (PZ800) has got a very glossy full glass surface (it looks like a thin film of glass all over the panel and the frame).  It looks sleek, it looks elegant, images are great,  but it has the tendency to act like a "dark mirror" especially during the day, or when the scene is dark, or when there is lighting at my back, or when my room is too bright with fixtures or with sunlight through the window.    Maybe the overseas equivalent model (PY800) has got a similar finish, so please take note.   But again, the other Panasonic models have panels that almost look like LCDs when not turned on, that I even had to touch the panel to verify that it was made of hard glass and not softy LCD.   The thing is, reflective TV's have always been with us since the CRT days and our reflections have always been on TV. It's just that we grew up with 14, 17 or 21 inch glasses watching from 8 feet or further away, but now, we have to face flat glass surfaces that are at least twice as big, AND, we are quite more observant of the image on the screen, that we tend to notice things other than the image itself.

right on bro .. ive already posted this before .. try not to look for the reflections .. cause 99% of the time, you are gonna find it ..
try watching from 5am - 3pm .. notice that you wont see the reflective part of the panel .. unless ofcourse you deliberately look for it ..
btw my cousin went to my place 2 days ago (akala nya birthday ko ).. he was checking out my display (syempre ako naman .. play ng HD files ko and ps3*pasikat*)(he also has a plasma display btw) .. he was impressed with my HD movies cause he is only using a generic dvd player .. anyway .. i asked him if he noticed the reflections on the panel .. then he said .. "oo nga anoh, yung sakin walang ganyan eh  .. " and my response was .. "check mo g@g@ .. meron yun pustahan pa tayo eh !"
now he wants to put a tint or something that could minimize this  .. i think its my fault cause he was enjoying his display before i mentioned the reflective issues with plasmas ..

[akyatbundok]

Speaking of room lighting, Panasonic's plasma marketing says the living room is around 75-150 lux while some AV stores can be as bright as 2,000 lux.  On the other hand, Hitachi's LCD marketing says the living room is around 300 lux so you'll need a brighter TV.

Both are probably correct.  Right now in the middle of a sunny day my camera meters to about 320-640 lux.  My living room is all-white -- walls, ceiling, floor... even my curtains are also white.  Gusto ko eh maaliwalas.

My bedroom is just as bright, but since I use thicker curtains, it will go down to 80 lux when I close the curtains.  In the evening my 2 lampshades will generate only 50 lux.

So my environment changes from 50 - 640 lux everyday.

My friends always notice my CRT TV is dark and washed out when they come visit during the day, because I forget to change the settings after calibrating it for nighttime viewing.  Wished it had 2 memory settings, I just couldn't be bothered to change it all the time.  I just pull the curtains.

I think both LCD and Plasma can handle most lighting conditions, they just have a different sweet spot.

[bigtym]

I am planning on buying a 42" Plasma/LCD soon and I want to wall mount it. Does the wall need to be concrete or it will be able to support even on a wooden partition?

[Clondalkin]

I am planning on buying a 42" Plasma/LCD soon and I want to wall mount it. Does the wall need to be concrete or it will be able to support even on a wooden partition?

Find the wall-studs supporting the wooden partition and bolt the mounting bracket into that.  Minimum of 2 stud points to carry the distributed weight of the HDTV and the bracket  Just for reference, a 42 plasma alone is about 28 kgs.  Panasonic's wall-mount brackets are about 7 kgs.

[halvert]

sana may mag-post ng pics ng lcd and plasma tv nila to show how they display cable signals and  ordinary dvds...

[ninjababez®]

sana may mag-post ng pics ng lcd and plasma tv nila to show how they display cable signals and  ordinary dvds...

check theaterworks thread bro .. jeff has been posting comparisons for HD and upscaled titles .. except cable tv reception 

[halvert]

yah, that's why i want to see how cable  and ordinary dvds would look like kasi dun ko gagamitin at wala pa akong budget for a bluray player

[ninjababez®]

yah, that's why i want to see how cable  and ordinary dvds would look like kasi dun ko gagamitin at wala pa akong budget for a bluray player

what size are you looking for? how about ps3 for your bluray player? pm me and maybe i can give you a good deal 

[[joms]]

mga pre, im very interested to know this:

Given:

a) 40" (Samsung/Sony) LCD vs 42"Plasma (panasonic)
b) yung cheapest model lang for the size given above. I think yung panasonic mga P65T
c) 2008 model ng LCD/Plasma pero yung low-end version lang
d) 8hrs/day
e) TV settings on default mode
f) input signal is broadcast cable TV

They say mas mahal yung kuryente to run a plasma TV, so given the conditions above, magkano yung madadagdag sa meralco bill mo in 1 month's time if you use plasma as against LCD? P100? P500? more?

[miccollo]

what size are you looking for? how about ps3 for your bluray player? pm me and maybe i can give you a good deal 

how much PS3 sir? may P*** disc na ba yan? hehe

[iiinas]

how much PS3 sir? may P*** disc na ba yan? hehe

if you are talking about games, wala pang p*****d. even bluray movies wala pa.

[iiinas]

mga pre, im very interested to know this:

Given:

a) 40" (Samsung/Sony) LCD vs 42"Plasma (panasonic)
b) yung cheapest model lang for the size given above. I think yung panasonic mga P65T
c) 2008 model ng LCD/Plasma pero yung low-end version lang
d) 8hrs/day
e) TV settings on default mode
f) input signal is broadcast cable TV

They say mas mahal yung kuryente to run a plasma TV, so given the conditions above, magkano yung madadagdag sa meralco bill mo in 1 month's time if you use plasma as against LCD? P100? P500? more?

ang pv8 ng panasonic mga 55k lang. as for electric bill, you will have to wait for plasma owners to answer that. lcd user kasi ako, but for the lcd, my electric bill did not change much even if the lcd is an additional unit. 

[darkwing]

for sure mas mataas yung plasma basta tungkol sa power consumption 

[ninjababez®]

for sure mas mataas yung plasma basta tungkol sa power consumption 

not really since dynamic ang rating ng power consumption ng plasma ..

[barrister]

for sure mas mataas yung plasma basta tungkol sa power consumption 

Mas mataas nga talaga ang power consumption rating ng plasma, pero mga specs lang yon on paper.

Paano naman kaya kung actual power consumption in real-world conditions? 

The results are surprising. 

In my case, my 29" CRT was replaced by a 42" plasma.  MERALCO bill did not change.

Here's what other members said:

Report on power consumption:

for those wondering about a plasma tv's power consumption. I got a panasonic 42pv70 early September.  I got my bill for the month already and may I just say that there is no marked increase in my electric bill. For comparison, my bill was higher during the  summer when I had to turn up my aircon more often.

Average use: 1-2 hours weekdays, at least 4 hours on weekends.

The electric bill just arrived,
and after the break-in period last month,
my electric bill now drops Php850 from my last bill,...

I use my plasma during evenings, watching DVD and cable,
maximum hours of use is 4 hours.... (everyday...)

I guess, the experts were correct in saying that the rated
consumption at the back panel is the rating if the TV is on TORCH mode...

Awesome,..!

Crutchfield tested several TVs for power consumption, using a method that more closely resembles real-world usage. 

Here's page 1, describing the tests: 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hFFpmYnlDPf/learn/learningcenter/home/TV-power.html

Page 2 charts the test results:
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/TV-power.html?page=2


Notice the results for the 42" sizes: 


Panasonic TH-42PX80U Plasma 42"                 $2.57
Sony KDL42V4100 LCD 42"                            $4.36
Panasonic TH-42PZ85U Plasma 42"                 $3.16
Panasonic TH-42PZ80U Plasma 42"                 $3.10
Samsung PN42A450 Plasma 42"                      $3.89
Toshiba 42XV540U LCD 42"                           $3.98
Toshiba 42AV500U LCD 42"                           $3.67



Cheapest monthly consumption: plasma, $2.57; next cheapest: plasma, $3.10.

Most expensive monthly consumption: LCD, $4.36; 2nd most expensive: LCD $3.98 

Quite the opposite of what we expected, no?

[Munskie]

Siguro dahil constant backlight ng LCD??

Plasma user here too.....no hike in power consumption.  Practicaly same viewing habits. 

[ninjababez®]

Siguro dahil constant backlight ng LCD??

Plasma user here too.....no hike in power consumption.  Practicaly same viewing habits. 

yup dynamic kasi consumption ng plasma ..
i just forgot to post my bills when i switched from lcdtv to plasma .. but the numbers were 2.2k (from lcdtv) to 1.7k (to plasma) .. as you see dramatic yung drop, but then i didnt remember changing my power consumption habbits .. (like saving power and all that), reason is i want to compute the highest possible rate that i could get .. it got lowered

anyway its now down to 1.2k (average for 2 months already, centavo lang a ng difference)
(but this time i changed to some bulbs and re-setup my htpc)

[barrister]

Yes, you're probably right. 

Published power rating specs of plasma & LCD were measured using static images, that's why plasma consumption rated higher.

The Crutchfield test used the "I, Robot" DVD, rather than a static image.  But all TVs tested used default picture settings. 


The article stated:

... We asked our Product Research Team to test the power consumption of the TVs we offer. We took the numbers they recorded and calculated an estimated monthly operating cost for each set. Our formula assumes 6 hours per day of TV watching and 18 hours a day in standby mode. It also assumes that power costs 10 cents per kilowatt hour.

... The objective is simple: Test the power consumption of TVs in a fair and consistent way that reflects how TVs are used in the real world.

... A static test pattern would make the test easier, but no one in the real world watches test patterns for fun (we hope).

... Before we tackled this challenge, we sought the advice of the experts in the Technology and Standards department of the Consumer Electronics Association.

... For the sake of consistency, we use the same source component (Denon DVD-1920 DVD player), the same signal path (HDMI, 1080i), and the same video clip for each test. A clip from the Will Smith movie I, Robot was selected for its visual variety. Each TV's picture controls (for color, brightness and contrast) are left at their "factory default" settings.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hFFpmYnlDPf/learn/learningcenter/home/TV-power.html

[ninjababez®]

why not try and test an all black background in static mode. .. baka maraming magplasma bigla .. ^_^

[aiebo]

i got 3 LCDTVs (32" Sony, 32" Hitachi and 40" Toshiba) for PC and PS3 gaming, ok talaga ang lcdtv... but for BD movies, mas gusto ko pa rin yung color rendetion ng 42" plasma. 

[Mouldingo]

Hitachi dials back plasma production, looks to buy from Panasonic

Hitachi is the latest manufacturer looking towards the door as the party at plasma's house is winding down, and the cost cutting isn't surprising in light of the company's steep losses on plasma TVs. Just to spare plasma's feelings, though, it has agreed to buy some panels from Panasonic (which looks to be last man standing at the dwindling party). It's hard to see the move as anything but inevitable -- as LCDs take over and OLEDs ramp up, Hitachi's 7.5-percent stake in the plasma market isn't the issue, it's the shrinking overall plasma market that's the problem. We wouldn't be surprised to see a complete exit from the plasma market in the foreseeable future. :'( :'( :'(

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/21/hitachi-dials-back-plasma-production-looks-to-buy-from-panasoni/

[bachwitz]

Hitachi dials back plasma production, looks to buy from Panasonic

Hitachi is the latest manufacturer looking towards the door as the party at plasma's house is winding down, and the cost cutting isn't surprising in light of the company's steep losses on plasma TVs. Just to spare plasma's feelings, though, it has agreed to buy some panels from Panasonic (which looks to be last man standing at the dwindling party). It's hard to see the move as anything but inevitable -- as LCDs take over and OLEDs ramp up, Hitachi's 7.5-percent stake in the plasma market isn't the issue, it's the shrinking overall plasma market that's the problem. We wouldn't be surprised to see a complete exit from the plasma market in the foreseeable future. :'( :'( :'(

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/21/hitachi-dials-back-plasma-production-looks-to-buy-from-panasoni/

part of LCD marketing campaign? hehehe 

[vtec3]

may sinamahan ako na uncle last week and audition a 46" LCD vs a 50" Plasma. For me Plasma pa din ang mas maganda. My uncle also biglang na pa Plasma even if LCD ang initially gusto niya. Yun nga lang he has to convince his kids, kasi gusto nung kids niya LCD kasi yun daw ang uso and yun ang mayron mga friends nila 

[ninjababez®]

Hitachi dials back plasma production, looks to buy from Panasonic

Hitachi is the latest manufacturer looking towards the door as the party at plasma's house is winding down, and the cost cutting isn't surprising in light of the company's steep losses on plasma TVs. Just to spare plasma's feelings, though, it has agreed to buy some panels from Panasonic (which looks to be last man standing at the dwindling party). It's hard to see the move as anything but inevitable -- as LCDs take over and OLEDs ramp up, Hitachi's 7.5-percent stake in the plasma market isn't the issue, it's the shrinking overall plasma market that's the problem. We wouldn't be surprised to see a complete exit from the plasma market in the foreseeable future. :'( :'( :'(

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/21/hitachi-dials-back-plasma-production-looks-to-buy-from-panasoni/

nakuh pano yan, i just got a 42pv80 from jeff 

[Clondalkin]

nakuh pano yan, i just got a 42pv80 from jeff 

Ganito mga solution dyan. 

a.  Palitan nyo plasma every 6 months to help maintain the overall plasma market
b.  Gamitin nyo na rin plasma as PC monitor kesehodang IR, burn-in, mainit, reflective, lower res.
c.  Pati room ni Inday, lagyan nyo ng plasma

Ok lang ma-obsolete ang plasma para maging mura agad ang OLED in 2015 

Pag sinabi ng anak na "uso" ang LCD and yun ang meron ang kalaro, eh kawawa yung bata kapag di uso ang TV nya and yung TV nya lang ang iba 

[vtec3]

Pag sinabi ng anak na "uso" ang LCD and yun ang meron ang kalaro, eh kawawa yung bata kapag di uso ang TV nya and yung TV nya lang ang iba 

actually naisip ko din yan    which model ng LCD 46" above would you recommend? Yung available dito sa atin sana