Author Topic: Bookshelf Speakers  (Read 30581 times)

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rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #60 on: Aug 14, 2002 at 05:07 AM »
--> where can we audition the JMR twins???

get in touch with Ferdi of Sounds & Images Cebu.  Email him at [email protected]

I'm not sure whether he:

1--still has stocks
2--has someplace in Manila where you can audition.

Offline EB

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #61 on: Aug 14, 2002 at 12:28 PM »
Thanks rtsy.

Offline Joma

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #62 on: Jan 22, 2003 at 03:53 PM »
Up ko lang po. I'm shopping kasi for a pair. Di ko pa kasi nababasa lahat.

Offline levi

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #63 on: Apr 19, 2003 at 06:51 PM »
bump

Offline Happy Dads Vinyl Shop

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #64 on: Apr 20, 2003 at 06:51 PM »
March 2002 What HiFi? gives Mission 780 the best award (Product of the Year in U.K. last 2 years) beating
AE Aesprit 300C, B&W DM 601 s3, Infinity Alpha 20, Jamo E800, JBL LX2002, JPW 202, Wharfedale Pacific Pi-10.

Check it out! Sounds great in both mid and bass ext.
SRP is about P21k.



cybermms ;D :o ::)


funny but i got these for 16k years ago locally..and then it jumped to 21k after a few months.....:) it was a clear runaway with the bass and mids compared to the other speakers of it's price range..i'm just maybe lucky i bought it in time :) missions also have a very service friendly crew in cubao ...i encountered a problem before where the aerogel woofer design started perspiring...the service center replaced it twice without question...they said that the first shipment i got was not made for asian humidity :)

hope this helps

each speaker make has it's own distinct quality
i had a experience where i went to a friends house to check out his set..wow! he has about 20 amps with matching CD players..at least a dozen speakers and they're not cheapos too..
-he didn't tell me which amp was set on which speaker
-he got surprised that I easily recognized the mission sound when I heard them on his tubes...
-weird thing is that I'm not really listening to tubes at home and have never heard missions run on them either..:) hmmmm
« Last Edit: Apr 20, 2003 at 07:14 PM by tryaudio »

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #65 on: Apr 21, 2003 at 09:56 AM »
Hey, anybody out there been able to audition the Dynaudio Audience 52s?  I've already heard the 42s and so far they're on the top of my list for bookshelfs, but I was kinda wondering about their bigger brother, the 52s.  Any comments or reviews on  them?   Am thinking about going all Audience for my setup.  Thanks.

Offline v0elker

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #66 on: Apr 21, 2003 at 09:30 PM »
hey bundy! did you hear the 42s with your NAD T752? how was it? was your T752 able to drive the dynes very well?

Offline john5479

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #67 on: Apr 21, 2003 at 10:58 PM »
all dynaudio setup :P just get the 42's then spend the extra cash for a very good sub just my opinion.

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #68 on: Apr 21, 2003 at 11:07 PM »
dynaudio is a low sensitivity, low impedance speaker that i find better matched with muscle amps whether solid state or tube. most amps rated 100wpc are very expensive, though specially the tube amps.

what about high-sensitivity bookshelf speakers (90db or more)? what's are your top 5 (abot ba?) picks among the locally available ones?




Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #69 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 01:44 AM »
Hey v0elker, sorry haven't had the time to bring my NAD to try it out with the Dyns yet.  Been busy attending to other stuff.  But its really killing me to find out already.  I'll do it soon... I hope.

john5479... you're not happy with an all dynaudio setup?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what you got right now right?  

tuff_u_gong... Right now I've auditioned B&W 601s3, JBL-forgot the model being offered by archi audio, Infinity Kappa, PSB Image 2B, Mission 772(I think), Klipsch Rb3, and the Dynaudio Audience 42s.  I've tested a good number of these speakers on Yamaha recievers, so that kinda limits the amp factor affecting the output characteristics of the speakers.  Most of the shops I went to had yammies setup for their demos.

Only the Audience 42s have gotten my attention.  Disclaimer... Not to lambast any other speakers owned by other people out there, just my preferences/opinion.  But the others fall short of my wants/taste.  Only the Audience seem to have a level of depth and detail that I'm looking for... or atleast a level that has impressed me.  I never got to audition the 52s so I'm curious to find out their difference with the 42s.

I'm planning to audition the JM Labs cobalt 806 and chorus 706 too.  I hope I can find the time to do that soon.

Offline john5479

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #70 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 05:33 AM »
bundy: i like dynaudio  :P means i'm drooling hehehe sorry for the misconception :) anyway if you plan to use dynaudios with the nad you can just go with the 42's then compensate the bass with a very good sub, its better than getting 52's if the bass is not that noticeable betwwen the 52 and the 42, di pa mahihirapan yung nad receiver.
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2003 at 05:33 AM by john5479 »

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #71 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:01 AM »
hey hey! just a great example of subjectivity in audio  ;D

i've listened to the B&W 601S3 driven by Musical Fidelity and I didn't like it at all. the sound is just not good to my liking.
 
the audience 42 didn't make the cut AFAIC, driven by a high end Yamaha at Listening, it didn't impress me at all. the audience 52 sounds more like it but sounds a LOT better on a Classe amp than a Yamaha. the 42 and 52 were fully broken in.

I find Missions uninvolving with Arcam and Musical Fidelity electronics, but a 360 degree turn with tubes! Even the cheap M71 sounds great when paired with a ST-70 from Hyperaudio. My ears probably don't like British and British, but British and American is more like it.  8)

If the Sonus Faber Concertinos can rock, i would have bought it.

The Klipsch RB-3 I've tried is great on vocals, but can't rock, and is slow. It was an un-broken in when I got to take it home for audition.

The Axiom M3ti is one hell of a **** and deserves to be heard. With 92dB sensitivity it will not require a high powered amp to sing (unlike the Dynaudio) this is an all-around performer.

The Infinity Kappa may sound just too bright with incompatible electronics. But it sounds best on my solid state and tube electronics (and I have 3 tube amps  8)) and this is what I own. Break in period is 3 months BTW, so if you've heard an unbroken in Kappa (or any speaker for that matter) it won't sound good.

If you have moolah to burn, look at JBL Ti2K big sound like a floorstander in a bookshelf package.

Another option, but not available locally (maybe soon, he he) is Coincident Triumph Signature. A fellow forumer said its sonic signature is like Sonus Faber.

so there you go... my take on this bookshelf thing  :D

tuff_u_gong... Right now I've auditioned B&W 601s3, JBL-forgot the model being offered by archi audio, Infinity Kappa, PSB Image 2B, Mission 772(I think), Klipsch Rb3, and the Dynaudio Audience 42s.  I've tested a good number of these speakers on Yamaha recievers, so that kinda limits the amp factor affecting the output characteristics of the speakers.  Most of the shops I went to had yammies setup for their demos.

rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #72 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:08 AM »
I use an old NAD T760 for my Audience 42's.  No problems with power here.

Whether you'd get the 52 or 42 depends on the room.  Both speakers are similarly voiced.  The 52 just has more bass.  If the room is big, go 52.  If small, more bass will in fact be a liability as you'll overload your room with bloated sound.

The Dynaudio's love power, true.  But 50wpc of solid, high quality power such as those from NAD, Rotel, or Musical Fidelity and Classe higher up the price scale, is much preferable over 1000w of power from some so-so power amp.

Power requirement isn't all about ohms (impedance) and db's (sensitivity).  Also consider how the speaker's impedance changes with respect to the frequency it is producing.  The call to fame of SET friendly speakers like Audio Note or Coincident is they're impedance is within 0.5ohm of it's rated impedance throughout the audible range.

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #73 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:16 AM »
good morning russel, i had a gut feel you'd chime in  ;D

wala ng Twins si Ferdie  :(

it's system matching, you're right. but hey, an Audience 42/52 may sound great with a Fase, don't you think? Pahiram 42 mo  ;D

so true, impedance hills and valleys are a pain (for the amps)
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:22 AM by arnoldc »

rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #74 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:22 AM »
hey hey! just a great example of subjectivity in audio  ;D

Great!  Let's see how our little notes compare:

i've listened to the B&W 601S3 driven by Musical Fidelity and I didn't like it at all. the sound is just not good to my liking.

Agree!  Much prefer the 303 or even the older DM302.  Don't know why.  Maybe my ears are cheap.  :D

the audience 42 didn't make the cut AFAIC, driven by a high end Yamaha at Listening, it didn't impress me at all. the audience 52 sounds more like it but sounds a LOT better on a Classe amp than a Yamaha. the 42 and 52 were fully broken in.

I haven't heard the newer Yamaha amps but during the time when the DSP-A1 was king, it's the Yammie that's killing the Dyn sound.  

I agree w/ you on Dyn & Classe.  Musical Fidelity and NAD also mates OK.  I'd guess that Onkyo, Marantz, and Rotel would be OK.  Notice how the amps I liked w/ Dyns are on the warm, lush side vs. the Yammie's characteristic leanness (w/c can be detailed and airy for some).

I find Missions uninvolving with Arcam and Musical Fidelity electronics, but a 360 degree turn with tubes! Even the cheap M71 sounds great when paired with a ST-70 from Hyperaudio. My ears probably don't like British and British, but British and American is more like it.  8)

Agree again!

If the Sonus Faber Concertinos can rock, i would have bought it.

It might help mentioning which kind of rock you mean, ArnoldC.  That kind of rock isn't on my musical diet kasi so the Tinos work perfect for me at the price.  :D

I only go as far as The Alarm, Big Mountain, Eagles/Glen Frey, Alan Parsons, etc. as far as this genre is concerned.  They all sound like church choirs relative to your Black Sabbath, Led Zep, AC/DC, etc.

The Klipsch RB-3 I've tried is great on vocals, but can't rock, and is slow. It was an un-broken in when I got to take it home for audition.

Yes, agree on slow.

The Axiom M3ti is one hell of a **** and deserves to be heard. With 92dB sensitivity it will not require a high powered amp to sing (unlike the Dynaudio) this is an all-around performer.

Where can this be heard?  How much?

Another option, but not available locally (maybe soon, he he) is Coincident Triumph Signature. A fellow forumer said its sonic signature is like Sonus Faber.

Hard to say if it's the speakers that's voiced like SF.  Remember that there is a Sofia 300B driving the Coincidents.

rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #75 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:27 AM »
good morning russel, i had a gut feel you'd chime in  ;D

wala ng Twins si Ferdie  :(

it's system matching, you're right. but hey, an Audience 42/52 may sound great with a Fase, don't you think? Pahiram 42 mo  ;D

so true, impedance hills and valleys are a pain (for the amps)

Good morning, Arnold!  I was typing our listening comparisons when you posted this.  :D

Yeah, heard from Ferdi himself about the demise of JMR distribution here.  

I don't really know how the Fase sounds like but from what I've read from your posts, perhaps it's a great match.

You can borrow my 42's but you'd have to ask permission from my 3 years old daughter.  She's the one who always uses it to watch Barney, Sesame Street, and Disney.  :D

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #76 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:30 AM »
russel, which rock, hmmm...

from classic rock (Derek and the Dominoes, Allman Brothers Band) to whatever the "music" or Marilyn Manson or Kittie is called  ;D

Audience 42 for you daughter, no no, i wouldn't want to disappoint her then.  ;D

oh, by the way, for the Axiom - just ping dogears  ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:33 AM by arnoldc »

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #77 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:35 AM »
A lot of interesting comments  :)  

But what if I was planning to make my fronts a little bit more special...  I'm attempting to do the dreaded mix of ht and stereo.  I don't mind my ht setup sounding a lot more on the musical side, after all, all I'm really after on the ht front is to get the complete surround sound.  

I'm planning to use my reciever as a preamp for my fronts, get a good amp(haven't even the search for this yet), good bookshelfs, and thus having an all in one system(sort of).  Which is why I'm at this forum now....  I'm trying to see if I can get something a little more special than the audience 42s.  I don't know if all of that made sense... hehehe  

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #78 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 10:55 AM »
bundy, would you believe that my home theater was upgraded from 5.1 to 2.0?

yes, you see it right, 2 channel home theater. amplification by italian-made Fase integrated amp, speakers are cheap JBL LX2002. My center and surrounds (never had a sub as I hate it's 'un musicality' he he) are now ornaments.

with this setup, i get 3D effects as well, i don't miss 5.1 at all.

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #79 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 11:07 AM »
I can understand where you're coming from.  Hehe  :)  In fact... thats what my setup is right now, 2.0.  I'm living off of borrowed speakers.  And I want to build my setup around a 2.0 system too.  Hence the search for right bookshelfs.

I'm trying to focus on both ht and stereo but its one tough act to juggle.  My philosophy on spending and budgeting is that I want to get the best sounding equipment(for me), even if it takes a longer time to put together.  Moolah... I don't have an abundance of.  So my budget isn't too flexible.  

I'm aiming for entry level high end bookshelfs.  I can't afford anything higher than that.  And thats where I am now...

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #80 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 11:24 AM »
good luck bundy, and we'd be pleased to know what you will eventually get.  ;)

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #81 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 11:30 AM »
Thanks for the help  arnoldc :)

rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #82 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 11:57 AM »
And I want to build my setup around a 2.0 system too.  Hence the search for right bookshelfs.

By golly, a patient audiophile!  You are a godsend!  All I can say is you are on the right path.  

The weak are more easily attracted to the trimmings of multi-channel.  Multi-channel has a bright future ahead of it, The Absolute Sound's Harry Pearson said so himself.  But if like most audio hobbyists your funds are restricted, in general, more is to be achieved building 2 channels over 6 or 7 or 8.

While you are building funds, learn about room acoustics, speaker positioning, and tweaking.  These are free and all that's required of you are keen ears and the patience to move speakers half an inch at a time then identifying the changes.

Also join a couple of the sessions that spews out of Pinoydiophiles.  This way, you broaden your listening experiences and zero in on the sound you like.

Lastly, keep an eye on the used market.  Some gems may be lurking just waiting for you.

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #83 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 01:24 PM »
Hehehe  ;D  Patience is a virtue I am trying extremely hard to master....

Just for the record, I am still going multichannel, but focusing most of my effort on the stereo section of the whole thing.  Everything else is secondary to those two fronts.  Its a twisted plan... but I think I've figured how I'm gonna go about putting the whole system together.

I've been doing a lot of evesdropping in wiredstate, reading up on the reviews and comments of the members there.  Just haven't signed up yet.

But yes... have looked around at the second hand market as well.  For anybody interested, I heard there is a used pair of Audience 42s for sale at Audioworld.  Called them yesterday.  Don't know how much though.

rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #84 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 02:34 PM »
Bundy,

Starting w/ good 2 chanel en route to multi-channel is absolutely correct.  IMHO, it's easy to make a musical system good for music than it is to make a cine-magical system do stereo well.

Register ka na sa Pinoydiophiles, libre naman yan.   ;)

Build on that virtue of patience.  But try not to beat my record.  My previous CD player, amp, and cables stayed with me 9 years.

Offline v0elker

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #85 on: Apr 22, 2003 at 02:59 PM »
arnoldc, rtsy: thanks for your posts, such an informative and entertaining read! really useful stuff!

lately, the scarcity of relevant posts (too much "me-too", drum-beating or just generally uninformed or irrelevant posts) have been a bit disappointing. good thing you guys are around, newbies like meself have been learning a lot from your experiences.

Offline bundy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #86 on: Apr 23, 2003 at 01:03 AM »
rtsy... thanks for the comments  :) I'll try hard to keep the patience thing going, but it is kinda tough.  Its a good thing I'm still saving.  Hehehe.  9 years is pretty good.  That means that you chose well then cuz you were satisfied with your setup that long.  Hopefully I'll be that satisfied too.  :)

Just so you guys know, my reciever is a NAD.  So, from your comments about the audience/NAD combo, I should be pretty satisfied.  I do hope so.  My room... its about 4mx6m with a pretty high ceiling, so I think it'll work well with the 42s.  Just wondering if I can get anything a little better cuz I'm planning to invest on a good dedicated amp to drive them.  Got to know all my options.  Hehe

Offline greatbop

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #87 on: Apr 23, 2003 at 02:30 AM »
If you've looked at BW 601s.. try checking out Paradigm Studio 40s..

www.paradigm.ca

I know Canadian speakers aren't exactly popular there in the Philippines.. But in my opinion... Check them out.. you might like them.
They're bright speakers... (aluminum tweeters). pero that's easily tameable by having a warm amplifier.



rtsy

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #88 on: Apr 23, 2003 at 10:10 AM »
rtsy... thanks for the comments  :) I'll try hard to keep the patience thing going, but it is kinda tough.

We'll all pray for you.   8)

9 years is pretty good.  That means that you chose well then cuz you were satisfied with your setup that long.  Hopefully I'll be that satisfied too.  :)

Either I chose well or I save up too slow.  :D

Seriously, another money saving technique I learned is you should (1) buy the best you can hear and afford today then (2) make quantum leap upgrades instead of incremental ones thereafter.

If you buy good stuff, it's gonna last a while and it'll stand several improvements on incrementally updated products from competition in the same price range.  One thing I do is after I've zeroed in on a product I like, I auditon products above its price range/quality just to see whether I find that improvement worth it.  If yes, I wait some more and save up.  If no, then you merely solidify your purchase decision.  

When I bought my Dynaudio Audience 40, I auditioned also thrice the price stuff from Dunlavy, Revel, B&W Nautilus, etc.  The exercise proved what bang for buck my chosen stuff was.

By quantum leap upgrades, I mean upgrades that within the first 15 to 20 seconds of a track, you immediately detect that the new thingy is a great improvement on your system.  This will keep you put of the merry go round of upgrades for a while.

By incremental upgrades I mean stuff like moving from 5.1 to 6.1 or even 7.1 w/c IMHO really helps in really large rooms but not so much w/ normal-sized rooms.  Or moving from a 60wpc HT receiver to 80wpc.  For the money you'd spend doing this, you're probably better off just doing some tweaks and positioning changes.

Just so you guys know, my reciever is a NAD.  So, from your comments about the audience/NAD combo, I should be pretty satisfied.  I do hope so.  My room... its about 4mx6m with a pretty high ceiling, so I think it'll work well with the 42s.  Just wondering if I can get anything a little better cuz I'm planning to invest on a good dedicated amp to drive them.  Got to know all my options.  Hehe

You're room is actually slghtly bigger than average rooms.    If you'll go for Dynaudio, try to see if you can ask Listening if:

1--you can pay for a 52
2--they can deliver both a 42 and 52 to try in your room
3--if you buy a 52, then no problem.  if you buy a 42, then they refund.

I think this proposal is reasonable enough.

Dyns need lots of breathing room.  No less than 1m from any wall, and not the same distance from the rear as side walls.  Don't even think about using the foam bungs to plug the ports as it significantly reduces the Dyn's abilities.

Also if you go Dyns, ask Listening about OCOS cables.  I haven't heard them but I've read good things about them w/ Dyn speakers.

Dyns don't like too much toe-in.  I think they've designed their drivers to disperse sound not straight out but to the sides a bit.

NAD, Rotel, Marantz, and Onkyo put very musical amplifiers in their HT receivers.  If you are considering using your HT receiver as a pre-amp outputting to a tubed poewr amp, also consider CD players w/ tubes in the output stages (nOrh CD1/QDS15, Ah! Njoe Tjoeb, Heart, Opera, or even tube output DACs like Scott Nixon).  I have a hunch they'd mate well w/ your NAD.

Offline john5479

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Re:Bookshelf Speakers
« Reply #89 on: Apr 23, 2003 at 11:00 AM »
dynaudios are a good choice enough said, but system synergy is still the main thing to consider :)