Author Topic: Bookshelf Speakers (Read 30519 times)

tuff_u_gong · « **Reply #90 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 02:38 PM »

Quote from: arnoldc on Apr 22, 2003 at 10:30 AM

oh, by the way, for the Axiom - just ping dogears

sir arnold!

how did you find the Axiom M3Ti? can you give more feedback? do you really think it can do 93db anechoic or do you think its in-room? reviews from soundstage, enjoythemusic, etc. impress me. i understand that it doesn't have a crossover for the woofers (just a frequency floor) just like the vintage EPOS bookshelves that's why it doesn't supposedly compromise the lows.

hindi ba boomy? what does it sound like? parang sonus or parang rogers/spendor LS 3/5a? o signature ang sound nya?

its supposed to be less than P15k pero shipping costs would bring it up to around P23k via fedex (3 days). if its a real winner, why don't you get the dealership franchise. didn't you do that with Eichmann (tama ba spelling sir?) wires/interconnects already?

thanks!

arnoldc · « **Reply #91 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 03:27 PM »

tuff...

it would be best if you ask dogears for an audition.

in my room, it's not boomy. it sounds good, but you gotta hear it on your gear to appreciate.

it's a winner and somebody else is representing it here. so, that answers your question why i did not ;-)

tuff_u_gong · « **Reply #92 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 03:35 PM »

Quote from: arnoldc on Apr 23, 2003 at 03:27 PM

tuff...

it would be best if you ask dogears for an audition.

in my room, it's not boomy. it sounds good, but you gotta hear it on your gear to appreciate.

it's a winner and somebody else is representing it here. so, that answers your question why i did not ;-)

sir sino? sino ang rep ng axiom dito sa pinas? how can i reach them? dito ba sa manila, sir?

thanks!

v0elker · « **Reply #93 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 03:40 PM »

wow, around 15k for the axioms? thats much cheaper than the dynes (and the used quads im saving up for).

sirs, im also interested to know kung sino rep nila dito sa pinas. thanks

arnoldc · « **Reply #94 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 03:56 PM »

guys, if you're interested in the Axiom, ping dogears in this forum.

john5479 · « **Reply #95 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 04:59 PM »

http://www.axiomaudio.com I think they are based in canada. Their speakers have a sensitivity of 90+, even their flagship speaker is comparatively cheaper ($1,100) and has 91-95 dB sensitivity. Hope magkaroon nga ng rep. or dist. para ma-audition.

bundy · « **Reply #96 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 05:31 PM »

rtsy... Its like you're reading my mind. Hehehe. That whole thing about auditioning higher priced speakers and incremental upgrades, its more or less what I was thinking. I in fact auditioned the Contour 1.1 after auditioning the Audience 42s. I even got to hear a pair of Countour 1.8 MKIIs. I do want to spend on the best equipment my money can buy cuz I don't wanna have any regrets and yearn for something else a little later. Its basically my philosophy on spending... which is rather difficult cuz it either prevents me from buying anything at all or wipes me out clean.

Made a mistake with the dimensions of my room. I was thinking of another room, sorry. My room's about 3mx4m. I think that would make it an average room now. But I do like your idea about asking Listening if they'll agree to that deal with the 52s. Atleast I'll be able to try them both out.... If I decide to go that way.

I'll check out those ocos cables you mentioned. Thanks for the tip. I'm still contemplating going tube or staying with ss. My plan is to try out the different amps with my speakers, once I get them. Atleast I'll be better able to decide by then.

I checked out the Ah! Tjoe Tjoeb's online, and they look interesting enough. And you can order them online from Upscale Audio US and have them shipped here. I bet one of you pinoydiophiles was responsible for having the price of shipping on the pull down menu of the site include the price for Philippines.

But... but... speakers first! Gotta focus on the speakers. Audience are on the top of my list until I can find something else that'll really grab my attention. I'll keep you guys posted.

arnoldc · « **Reply #97 on:** Apr 23, 2003 at 11:07 PM »

bundy, if you plan on going tubes think twice about the audience 42/52. At 86dB sensitivity and 3.7 ohms to 11 ohms impedance (from a nominal of 4 ohms), that makes it as one hell of a tube unfriendly speaker.

greatbop · « **Reply #98 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 01:33 AM »

If you're considering the Axioms, you would wanna consider Paradigms as well..

Axioms are know to have very bright highs. So are paradigms for their aluminum tweeters. Pero Paradigms are not as bright.

You don't lose anything if you manage to audition those naman, diba?

Paradigm is known as a good 'bang for the buck' company. They try to cut costs down by now using 'fancy' materials..

ie their cheaper line.. yung sub's hi freq input, were just spring connectors. (parang mini component) cept of a higher quality. And you couldn't take the grilles off, etc. Any ways of saving costs outside the box goes what's inside of the box. Ofcourse the same isn't true for thei high end stuff.

Everyone in the states and n. america are crazy for them. Stereophile highly recommends these speakers. their entry level and their current flagship line always always gets mentioned in their recommended components. But so again are a few axioms.

You are missing one heck of a speaker by ignoring these. all it takes is an audition.

bundy · « **Reply #99 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 01:54 AM »

Quote

Posted by: arnoldc Posted on: Yesterday at 11:07:09pm
bundy, if you plan on going tubes think twice about the audience 42/52. At 86dB sensitivity and 3.7 ohms to 11 ohms impedance (from a nominal of 4 ohms), that makes it as one hell of a tube unfriendly speaker.

Thanks for the tip. I'm not too sure about tubes yet anyway. As of now, I'm more inclined to stick with solid state. But atleast you gave me something to think about.

Any other speakers you tried out at around the price range of the Audience 42/52s?

john5479 · « **Reply #100 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 02:03 AM »

you can also try bookshelves by sonus faber (concertino), PSB (alpha and image series) and bookshelf from jbl's xti series (this one has great bass).

rtsy · « **Reply #101 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 10:28 AM »

Quote from: john5479 on Apr 24, 2003 at 02:03 AM

you can also try bookshelves by sonus faber (concertino), PSB (alpha and image series) and bookshelf from jbl's xti series (this one has great bass).

Except for the JBL's that I haven't heard, I second the motion!

I use Dyns on my HT. Sonus in my audio rig. I don't own PSB's but I've been responsible for at least 4 families owning them now.

john5479 · « **Reply #102 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 10:38 AM »

I heard the jbl at the soundroom I think they are more ideal for ht and rock music because of the bass it produces, I initially tested it on a denon 1603, no bass at all, switched to a harman kardon stereo receiver and I was pleasantly surprised, its priced the same as a dynaudio audience 42 btw.

bundy · « **Reply #103 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 10:48 AM »

Tried out JBLs already at Archi Audio. Didn't like them so much. Was never really a big fan of the big bass JBL sound. Checked out the PSB Images too... not to my liking. It seemed to lack something, although I can't really remember now what that was. Although it could be because it was matched with a Yamaha reciever then.

I am curious about the Sonus Fabers. You guys know how much the Concertinos go for?

arnoldc · « **Reply #104 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 11:01 AM »

The Concertino was once offered to me for 35K by Upscale at Park Square

Oh i forgot to mention, I also auditioned the Energy C-3 which I found involving driven by Denon 2802 in direct/bypass stereo mode. This was quoted to me at 33K list (but will be discounted if i bought it). To me, this speaker has the best grill! They're attached by magnets... unlike most if not all other speakers.

If anything there is to complain about my Kappa, that's the grill. I mean, it's got real wood (not MDF) like a Sonus Faber and yet the grill is ordinary.

Lastly, I also tried Mordaunt-Short 902, but the electronics driving it won't allow me to make a fair judgement. The amp brand didn't even registered in my brain

john5479 · « **Reply #105 on:** Apr 24, 2003 at 11:19 AM »

So far only 5th ave. electronics carries mourdant short speakers the 902s are relatively cheap ~10k but came across some reviews that compare them favorably with other bookshelves, but I agree that the amps they use for demo (teac an kenwood) might not do the speaker justice.

ariel · « **Reply #106 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 10:27 AM »

you can also try the boston acoustics VRM50 at SM megamall A - autsport shop.

Machine · « **Reply #107 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 11:33 AM »

Try auditioning Polk Audio. The RTi series rival the B&W 600 series, while the LSi series rival that of B&W Nautilus. Polks are quite scarce but there's a store in Virra Mall (Cardinal Audio) with plenty of stock.

Polks are sold cheaper here than B&W (though USD equivalents are comparable). I personally prefer the Polks because they sound smoother. If you like your music crisp, go for British sound - B&W.

rtsy · « **Reply #108 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 11:34 AM »

Quote from: bundy on Apr 24, 2003 at 10:48 AM

Tried out JBLs already at Archi Audio. Didn't like them so much. Was never really a big fan of the big bass JBL sound. Checked out the PSB Images too... not to my liking. It seemed to lack something, although I can't really remember now what that was. Although it could be because it was matched with a Yamaha reciever then.

I am curious about the Sonus Fabers. You guys know how much the Concertinos go for?

Someone told me ~PhP40k na Concertino Home. Also ask Hyperaudio. Saw a used one there before.

Someone asked me, don't remember if you whether SF has HT speakers. Answer is yes. There are center speakers and the Concertino Wall for surrounds.

Do you bring your amp when you audition? Iba-iba kasi amp at system matching so it may be hard to really compare just the speakers. The places you went to are likely to welcome your bringing your amp. They are good stores.

bundy · « **Reply #109 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 05:37 PM »

You're right about the Concertinos being P40k na. Upscale is selling them for P40k++. I was able to audition them yesterday. Asked about the solo center too, about P30k++. The wall wasn't avialable cuz they ran out of stock, but it would most probably go for P40k++ too.

Now about the sound. Well, I've finally found a speaker to rival the sound of the Dyns. I first auditioned them with a Rotel integrated amp, (971 I think). It had good detail, a level of depth, but slightly bright and forward. My reaction was, here is a speaker that gives a similar level of quality of sound as the Audience 42s but more aggressive. I told the sales guy who was attending to me about how I felt it sounded and he told me try it with another amp. He switched to a Perreaux 200wx2 amp. And the sound changed considerably. The forward character of the speaker was totally gone but everything else good about the speaker remained. Plus, the Concertinos sounded so much warmer. Wow...

I have to say that looks wise I would choose the Concertinos over the Audience in a heartbeat. But that's not what we're here for. Price wise, the Audience would win out. But in terms of sound.... its time to bring over my NAD and see which suits my system better. Atleast I have two choices now.

rtsy · « **Reply #110 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 08:29 PM »

Audio Tyro once upon a time used a 'Tino Home with Rotel 931. I have ESP and I can read his mind. He'll ask you what cables Upscale was using. Audio_Tyro found van den Hul then Analysis Plus I/C & Speaker Cables to his liking.

I used to have a NAD 304 w/c took turns driving the 'Tino w/ my Nakamichi IA3. The NAD-Sonus is pretty good as well though I preferred my Nakamichi IA3 but not by a wide margin.

Staying solid state, the 'Tino would love Musical Fidelity and the Audio Analogue Puccini.

For tube options or anything Sonus or anything tubes or or anything tweaky or anything audio, go to http://www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles or Audio Asylum and do a search for Hyperion, a fellow Pinoy. He's a Sonus guru. And my Sonus pusher.

I realize you're looking for speakers and rattled off on amps. Sorry, couldn't help it. But get in touch w/ Hyperion, he's really helpful.

bundy · « **Reply #111 on:** Apr 25, 2003 at 11:11 PM »

I don't know exactly which model Upscale was using but I do know it was Ecosse. But its good to hear that you had a pleasant experience with a NAD/Sonus combination. I might try and bring my reciever over to Upscale tomorrow so I can hear for myself.

Hey thanks for the amp tips as well.

It'll help in the long term planning of my setup.

john5479 · « **Reply #112 on:** Apr 26, 2003 at 04:54 PM »

sonus faber speakers...nice to look at and warm sounding too, female voices just sound so good with concertinos way over my budget for now though $:-\$

rtsy · « **Reply #113 on:** Apr 27, 2003 at 08:42 AM »

Quote from: john5479 on Apr 26, 2003 at 04:54 PM

sonus faber speakers...nice to look at and warm sounding too, female voices just sound so good with concertinos way over my budget for now though $:-\$

Add strings to this list...Franco Serblin didn't name his higher end line after the Cremonese violin makers, Guarneri, Amati, (coming soon) Stradivarius for nothing.

Really though, SF's aren't speakers for just voices and strings. It has much, much more to offer. As always, your mileage may vary.

What I hear as a smooth, glare free top end on SF's can be "rolled off highs" for others. What I hear as warmth and body can be "colorations, non-flat frequency response, inaccurate/dishonest" speakers to others.

Listen and let your ears decide!

audio_tyro · « **Reply #114 on:** Apr 27, 2003 at 01:11 PM »

Just like in the case of my REL sub, Sonus Faber is my speaker of choice. Talking about the Concertino Home, there's just not much other speaker brands out there that can deliver the same level of tonal richness, sweetness, warmth, transparency, detail (both macro and micro), seductive mids, immaculate highs, lucid and tuneful bass, at that pricepoint of P40+K. Minimum height stand is 27 inches.

RTSY is right, system matching is very important. Get a good amp to drive it to sonic nirvana; afterall, speakers are the "slaves" of the amplifier. Speaker will only do what the "boss" amp will tell them to do. Most of the time, they will do less than what they are told.

I've heard remarkable results with the affordable (but astounding) Rotel 931Mk.2 (but not with the Rotel 971, puzzling fact!). NAD C320BEE also work well with it (my friend tried it last week). Currently, I'm using Musical Fidelity A-220 Class A int. amp with it (synergy is quite heavenly!).

Cables make a big difference. Good match are van den Hul CS-122HB (using van den Hul D102Mk.3 interconnects). Best results is the tandem of Analysis Plus Oval 12 speaker wire (Analysis Plus Oval 1 interconnects).

Good luck Bundy. I hope you will be able to get a Sonus soon. You won't regret it. Solid recommendation!

stradale · « **Reply #115 on:** Apr 27, 2003 at 06:54 PM »

Which would be the better buy for 2-channel playback of all types of music, Audience 52 or the Concertinos?

john5479 · « **Reply #116 on:** Apr 27, 2003 at 08:36 PM »

my take is I find the concertinos on the warm side while dynaudios are more neutral and excels in clarity, this is if you are just basing on sound. That said it boils down on how you prefer your music. Concertinos are easier to drive I think. Appearance wise I know what I'll pick...lalo na pag kasama yung katernong stands

arnoldc · « **Reply #117 on:** Apr 28, 2003 at 09:58 AM »

you cannot make a conclusion based on the speaker alone. a concertino can sound bright, and the audience warm.

it all depends on your electronics (amp, preamp) and cables.

john5479 · « **Reply #118 on:** Apr 28, 2003 at 11:32 AM »

sorry just based my impression when I heard them on certain equipment...i'm not saying that it will always be the case, the amplifier used by the way for both speakers was a musical fidelity a3.2 integrated amplifier, when I heard them. My bad

Courage · « **Reply #119 on:** Apr 28, 2003 at 01:32 PM »

Quote from: john5479 on Apr 28, 2003 at 11:32 AM

sorry just based my impression when I heard them on certain equipment...i'm not saying that it will always be the case, the amplifier used by the way for both speakers was a musical fidelity a3.2 integrated amplifier, when I heard them. My bad

john,

sent u a pm bro.