Topic: Pioneer DV-600AV-S (1080p upscaling dvd player)

[danrd]

Maybe this would change your mind....

Media Center XPC

Sorry just trying to be a devil's advocate here. 

Ok Mr Devil's advocate.  You got me thinking. Is it possible to have the same remote setup even if I assemble a basic tower?

[jerix]

Last Sunday, my friend tried his 696 and 600 via component using his new ax-100 then later on with this old ae-700, to our surprise, the 600 showed better PQ.

So inspiring ...  bro can you elaborate more please ...

[kt]

i would think so, coz as with my panny ae900 i noticed quite a difference. better upconversion though not necessarily better color or better contrast. as what nerveblocker said above, you should calibrate your source/display to get the colors you want (which may or may not be the correct one). to some, the component output gives more pleasing results.

tnx for the reply! hmm thats why its more tempting to get the 600av...especially with all the praises here! hehe 

[slayer]

The unit only supports FAT32 so if your mobile drive was formatted NTFS, the unit won't be able to read it.

[Ctlim]

Hmm.... anybody else got a 696 vs 600 review on pq... might just decide to upgrade too.

[frootloops]

Last Sunday, my friend tried his 696 and 600 via component using his new ax-100 then later on with this old ae-700, to our surprise, the 600 showed better PQ.

We again had a head to head challenge between the 696 and 600 this afternoon. The 600 using just component still had a better PQ compared to 696 using HDMI. Any violent reaction?? 

[sechiong]

yun na nga.... kapag sa component output palang a better PQ na ano pa ang makikita namin sa upscaling ng 720p or 1080p ng hdmi? parang pareho lang kasi...baka masayang lang ang pagbili ko nito at ng hdmi cable.

[kt]

finally decided to get the 600av last nyt. i still havent tweaked my unit that well for HDMI connection. how do u know what upconversion is best for my display? tnx

[nerveblocker]

finally decided to get the 600av last nyt. i still havent tweaked my unit that well for HDMI connection. how do u know what upconversion is best for my display? tnx

Personal taste I guess. I prefer 1080i on my Aquos.

[firewired]

The 600 using just component still had a better PQ compared to 696 using HDMI. Any violent reaction??

After extensively calibrating my DLP panel, I still prefer the 696's component output vs. HDMI. The Faroudja chip on the TV is a major factor probably since it upscales beautifully to 720p.

HDMI performance on my TV is marred by some visible artifacting in scenes with a heavy preponderance of certain colors combined with fine textures (ie night sky scenes, underwater scenes, etc.). Quoting myself in another thread:

I tried Superman (1978 version, Region 1 2001 release) and saw problems immediately. In the first act of the film, there were clear aberrations in certain scenes. The red sun comes to mind as well as the Kryptonian sky  as the Phantom Zone mirror/portal drops from space to claim General Zod and company. 720p via HDMI produced visible color banding and posterization artifacts that were absent when viewing the same scenes over component.

Still, maybe I'm just too sensitive to video artifacts. Other people don't notice the problem until I point it out to them.

[gearhead]

sad to say, but i do think i get same or more pleasing video quality too using my philips 5500s component output. to quote myself also:

i would think so, coz as with my panny ae900 i noticed quite a difference. better upconversion though not necessarily better color or better contrast. as what nerveblocker said above, you should calibrate your source/display to get the colors you want (which may or may not be the correct one). to some, the component output gives more pleasing results.

it's just i might still stay with the hdmi coz i can't bear the hassle of running another three cables as it'll be a cable management nightmare. i already have two surround cables, the hdmi, coaxial for the antenna input and extension cord for the pj.  also, the 600av has better analog audio performance than the above philips. 

using full rgb color on hdmi, you get better contrast... but then it looks "video" to me, not cinematic. switching to component color (still on hdmi) gives more pleasing results. if it's a bit washed out, i just lower the brightness a notch either on the pj or the player, or both... and choose between the 3 cinema modes for the better rendition. i also turn down the sharpness to "soft" as even with just the standard setting, there are some objectionable ringing/edge enhancements especially on low bitrate materials.

[kt]

can the firmware for this be updated?

[MAtZTER]

got an HDMI cable yesterday & compared component versus HDMI on a 32" LCD.

As of now,  the most obvious difference I see is that the HDMI gives a brighter picture exposing the details of black portions. A little sharper picture too at 720p. Component colors feel more natural & has good saturation of colors.

I (& my wife) do not like the 1080i images as its too bright & washed out.

But like I said before, not night & day difference on a 32" screen (viewing distance 4m).

I like the setting best at 720p w/ HDMI color set at component.

I dont use a line conditioner in my bedroom setup so I seem to notice more grains? But not too sure. Will try to connect to a line conditioner if it will reduce grains, or maybe the DVD I demoed was grainy.

[jango602]

matzter,

comparing a regular toshiba DVD player via component and this pioneer via hdmi (upscaled to 720p), would the pioneer give significant PQ difference on a 32" LCD tv?

or hindi parin?

[MAtZTER]

That depends, the word "significant" is subjective. I have seen the upconversion effect on a 90"-96" image (in my primary setup) to w/c I find to be a significant improvement.

Therefore, because of this experience, I do not find the parallel effect significant on a smaller 32" screen. Its called the "Law of Diminishing Returns" .

But note that there is a positive difference though, but whether it is justified to spend on an upgrade depends on your eye's & pocket's judgement. But to me, not that much unless you have 40" + screens. <--that is subjective too.

just my 2 c3nts!

[jango602]

yep got that im probably just itching for something that will use the potential of my TV, specifically the HDMI ports

[kt]

got an HDMI cable yesterday & compared component versus HDMI on a 32" LCD.

As of now,  the most obvious difference I see is that the HDMI gives a brighter picture exposing the details of black portions. A little sharper picture too at 720p. Component colors feel more natural & has good saturation of colors.

I (& my wife) do not like the 1080i images as its too bright & washed out.

But like I said before, not night & day difference on a 32" screen (viewing distance 4m).

I like the setting best at 720p w/ HDMI color set at component.

I dont use a line conditioner in my bedroom setup so I seem to notice more grains? But not too sure. Will try to connect to a line conditioner if it will reduce grains, or maybe the DVD I demoed was grainy.

hi sir matz! pls do give reviews with n without the line conditioner. im also planning to get one if may noticeable difference talaga. tnx!

[vtec3]

@Kt

kumusta performance ng Pio DV 600 mo I have four players that does upconverting Pio DV-600 1080p,  Samsung DVD-HD845 1080i both through HDMI and Samsung HD 841 1080i through component and Toshiba SD 4980 1080i through HDMI. Ang favorite ko na gamitin is the Pio and the Samsung 841. Mas malinis ang PQ in my opinion.

Yung Samsung HD845 although maganda din ang output at 1080p pero mas crisp yung sa Pio 600.

Sold na nga pala my Toshiba  SD 4980 and thinking of selling na din my Samsung HD845. Kasi so many DVD players so little time to use it 

[sechiong]

@Kt

kumusta performance ng Pio DV 600 mo I have four players that does upconverting Pio DV-600, Samsung DVD-HD845 both 1080p through HDMI and Samsung HD 841 1080i through component and Toshiba SD 4980 1080i through HDMI. Ang favorite ko na gamitin is the Pio and the Samsung 841. Mas malinis ang PQ in my opinion.

Yung Samsung HD845 although maganda din ang output at 1080p pero mas crisp yung sa Pio 600.

Sold na nga pala my Toshiba  SD 4980 and thinking of selling na din my Samsung HD845. Kasi so many DVD players so little time to use it 

wow! dahil sa experience mo parang gusto ko ng bilhin ito ah...
sir matzter, nasubukan mo na ba sa pj mo ang dv600?

[kt]

@Kt

kumusta performance ng Pio DV 600 mo I have four players that does upconverting Pio DV-600 1080p,  Samsung DVD-HD845 1080i both through HDMI and Samsung HD 841 1080i through component and Toshiba SD 4980 1080i through HDMI. Ang favorite ko na gamitin is the Pio and the Samsung 841. Mas malinis ang PQ in my opinion.

Yung Samsung HD845 although maganda din ang output at 1080p pero mas crisp yung sa Pio 600.

Sold na nga pala my Toshiba  SD 4980 and thinking of selling na din my Samsung HD845. Kasi so many DVD players so little time to use it 

vtec musta bro? havent watched a full movie with this yet puro pang testing palang! haha maybe this coming long wknd. kaso hassle minsan manood ng naka full zoom sa tv medyo nag iiba ichura noh? hehe

wow ang dami mo namang players! benta mo na yung iba then bili ka nalang HD DVD player! hehe

i was also able to borrow the Bada line conditioner kay sir sonny...matest nga....hehe

[Zenki]

Can it read DTS wav files?

[vtec3]

vtec musta bro? havent watched a full movie with this yet puro pang testing palang! haha maybe this coming long wknd. kaso hassle minsan manood ng naka full zoom sa tv medyo nag iiba ichura noh? hehe

wow ang dami mo namang players! benta mo na yung iba then bili ka nalang HD DVD player! hehe

i was also able to borrow the Bada line conditioner kay sir sonny...matest nga....hehe

yup i can relate, the Pio's zoom mode kasi takes out alot from the original frame, kaya at this time laging yung Samsung HD841 gamit ko  Parang yung 16 x 9 naging 4 x 3 lang  Yung players na post ko doesn't include the two which my son uses (Sony and another Pio with Karaoke function) he he he.

Pero if i have a 1.85 movie that I want to watch i make sure i use the Pio 600.

plan to buy a PS3 and go bluray next in line din yung Bada line conditioner  hopefully mga december after maka recover ng konti sa recent SARS attack 

[MAtZTER]

wow! dahil sa experience mo parang gusto ko ng bilhin ito ah...
sir matzter, nasubukan mo na ba sa pj mo ang dv600?

Not yet, cuz I just got the HDMI cable recently. And it was so hard connecting it to my wall mounted LCD w/ wood panel cover (see HT gallery) that I dont think I will be disconnecting the HDMI cable soon .

Anyway, I use an upconverting DVDp via component in my PJ, w/c we AB'ed to an award winning Denon HDMI DVDp, almost same lang PQ so I am content w/ it & not so excited to compare it w/ the Pio600 ... for the meantime .

[kt]

yup i can relate, the Pio's zoom mode kasi takes out alot from the original frame, kaya at this time laging yung Samsung HD841 gamit ko  Parang yung 16 x 9 naging 4 x 3 lang  Yung players na post ko doesn't include the two which my son uses (Sony and another Pio with Karaoke function) he he he.

Pero if i have a 1.85 movie that I want to watch i make sure i use the Pio 600.

plan to buy a PS3 and go bluray next in line din yung Bada line conditioner  hopefully mga december after maka recover ng konti sa recent SARS attack 

i havent tried using the zoom function of the pio 600. i always use the tvs zoom for now. yup 1.85 is really great watching on the tv! 

nakow yang ps3 talaga ang gsto ko kaso ang tagal bumaba ng price! hehe  :'(

[gearhead]

wow! dahil sa experience mo parang gusto ko ng bilhin ito ah...
sir matzter, nasubukan mo na ba sa pj mo ang dv600?

i've been using the pio600 with my ae900 for a few days already. at first it's quite hard to get your color/contrast/brightness just right for your taste, but i have it gotten down pat almost so i am enjoying it now. i don't use full rgb coz the contrast is too much it looks more like compressed blacks in the darker scenes. i mostly use just plain RGB now. using the component color setting, contrast and black performance suffers a bit but i still prefer it over full rgb. maybe if you're using a plasma or lcd it might not be as objectionable as i was using it with my 29" crt previously and it's very watchable naman. still you lose some detail in the blacks to lower grays, a tradeoff for the punchy image you do get. what i'm most impressed with this player is the upconverting ability @720p though. another nice bonus is the ability to send 480i signal to the pj w/c i mostly use when watching 4:3 material. this way i can have the pj show it in justified mode.

[sechiong]

the salesman said that hdmi cable 1.3 version can give much better pq than the hdmi 1.1 version, is there really any difference between those two cables??

[John E.]

i have'nt tried the version one yet and went on to use the 1.3 (panasonic) right away.

however upon researching i found out that ver.1 only transfer data with a maximum bitrate of 4.9 Gbit/s vs 10.2 Gbit/s for the ver.1.3 parang sa internet mas malaki ang bandwidth mas mabilis at mas malinaw ang pasok ng data transfer.

Maximum video bandwidth (Gbps) ver.1 = 3.96 vs ver.1.3 = 8.16

Maximum audio bandwidth (Mbps) ver.1 = 36.86 vs ver.1.3 = 36.86 same

 

Resolutions possible over single link HDMI at 24bits per pixel

ver.1 = 1920x1080p60

vs

ver.1.3 = 2560x1600p60 - i have'nt seen such thing though and dont know if there's a device capable of such yet but they mentioned that ver.1.3 is future proof.

im not really sure about the other stuff mentioned about HDMI cables but im just amazed of this technology and glad to be using one. 

[kt]

whats the different settings for the HDMI color like RGB, full, and component? what do u use? tnx

[sechiong]

i have'nt tried the version one yet and went on to use the 1.3 right away.

however upon researching i found out that ver.1 only transfer data with a maximum bitrate of 4.9 Gbit/s vs 10.2 Gbit/s for the ver.1.3 parang sa internet mas malaki ang bandwith mas mabilis at mas malinaw ang pasok ng data transfer.

Maximum video bandwidth (Gbps) ver.1 = 3.96 vs ver.1.3 = 8.16

Maximum audio bandwidth (Mbps) ver.1 = 36.86 vs ver.1.3 = 36.86 same

 

Resolutions possible over single link HDMI at 24bits per pixel

ver.1 = 1920x1080p60

vs

ver.1.3 = 2560x1600p60 - i have'nt seen such thing though and dont know if there's a device capable of such yet but they mentioned that ver.1.3 is future proof.

im not really sure about the other stuff mentioned about HDMI cables but im just amazed of this technology and glad to be using one. 

in that case as you mentioned above the 1.3 version can give much better pq, thanks for the info bro juric!

[John E.]

  more on HDMI ver. 1.3 read more at

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/audioholics-hdmi-1-3-q-a

higher resolution - provide over 450% the resolution of 720p HDTV, and over 225% of 1080p HDTV for greater detail and larger display sizes.

higher refresh rates - 90Hz refresh rate for faster refresh rates which create smoother motion and less blurring in motion sequences parang pag mas mataas ang video card ng PC mo. 

deep color -  displays can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.