Topic: Should Subjects on NMTs be Banned from PinoyDVD?

[barrister]

I'm satisfied that sir firewired has an open mind and has a deep understanding about the issues.

As always, I will accept whatever position the mods will take, knowing that such positions are never arbitrary, but always carefully deliberated.



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From what I could gather, the OP doesn't really have an issue with NMT's per se....

I don't think so.

The medium is the problem. Its ability to play pirated HD content alone and easier use than a HTPC are enough to entice purchasers. Banning NMTs will make it harder for people to yearn Pirated HD Content.

That post clearly specifies that it's the NMT itself that he objects to, because of its mere "ability".

[techdude]

Eventually the OMB will step into the piracy issue if NMT become a big success.  NMT's success also means that the chances of local distributor selling Bluray titles will be greatly diminished.  Even sales of DVDs will be affected.  So sooner or later, the local distro would act.  So by banning these discussion of 'free' content, PinoyDVD is in fact doing the seller a service.  Lest, they be put on the crosshairs of NBI.  You can't say' they are not for profit' since the sale of the NMT itself is profit based.

NMT per se is legal.  And discussion is probably okay.  But it's ascent is really a double-edge sword.

[frootloops]

Okay so the train is finally about to stop. I can't believe it, after locking one poll to another POLL? If the OP has a problem with NMT, then he or she could have made his subject "Should Selling of NMT's Be Banned from PinoyDVD?"  Start from the root cause. No source, no referrence less talk. Can you or someone do that?

POLL Result :

Yes, it promotes HD piracy  11 (31.4%)
No, no harm in swapping files.  16 (45.7%)
WTH are you talking about???  8 (22.9

This thread still promotes the use of NMT and piracy dont you think? I am still being convinced by some that NMT's are the way to go by reading this WTH are you talking about thread.  But I will still BUY MORE DVD''s for my collection even though I already have an NMT.

This thread is finished. The Master already gave his side on this matter.  Enough of fingerpointing. Let's move and be mature enough to know what is right and what is wrong. "may times talaga na napapasarap ang usapan...kung saan saan na napupunta, wala pang hawak na beer yan ha".  

MABUHAY ANG PINOYDVD!

[gren]

Okay, I read the gist of the thread, but I didn't go through the particulars.   Here's my take though:

- The Group buy thread got out of hand, and in my opinion, should be moved to the Buy and Sell forum, if not removed at all.  I am personally against the idea of mixing commerce with technical discussions.  But it was fun and exciting and I got a bit out of hand.  Needless to say, if something like that ever occurs again (group buy), it won't be on the SOURCES DISCUSSION sub-forum.

- I find myself agreeing to the OPs sentiments that NMTs can be a vehicle that promotes piracy and can be against the spirit in which PinoyDVD is established.  However, I find myself returning to this site because this is where it's at: the bleeding edge of local home entertainment technology.

It's going to be a tough call but however which way this ends up, I hope that we can continue to discuss technologies relevant to the home entertainment field.  Of course, I do think that we've gone past the point where we're living up to the site's name (DVD), but since the site's name is a brand in itself, it would be a shame to do away with it and establish PinoyBluRay just to remain accurate to the nature of our discussions.

- Bottom line for me is: discussions about technology - good.  Discussion about piracy - bad.  Commerce related discussions should remain in the Buy and Sell section too.

[iiinas]

Eventually the OMB will step into the piracy issue if NMT become a big success.  NMT's success also means that the chances of local distributor selling Bluray titles will be greatly diminished.  Even sales of DVDs will be affected.  So sooner or later, the local distro would act.  So by banning these discussion of 'free' content, PinoyDVD is in fact doing the seller a service.  Lest, they be put on the crosshairs of NBI.  You can't say' they are not for profit' since the sale of the NMT itself is profit based.

NMT per se is legal.  And discussion is probably okay.  But it's ascent is really a double-edge sword.

if your scenario plays out, then its an uphill battle, this is what is happening in western countries, and this content providers are going after these net pirates by shutting down their sites,servers and etc., but you close one down, ten others open up, and with p2p, its really a very resource heavy task and i dont think our government has the capability to fight it, not at this point. as it is, the omb is already hard pressed in controlling brick and mortar pirates, let alone the manpower and resources to go after net pirates.

[techdude]

if your scenario plays out, then its an uphill battle, this is what is happening in western countries, and this content providers are going after these net pirates by shutting down their sites,servers and etc., but you close one down, ten others open up, and with p2p, its really a very resource heavy task and i dont think our government has the capability to fight it, not at this point. as it is, the omb is already hard pressed in controlling brick and mortar pirates, let alone the manpower and resources to go after net pirates.

net pirates are hard to catch but offline stores aren't.  Like targetting stores that sell preloaded PC with unlicensed Windows, it was a success that few store does now.  There are other ways like what the RIAA is doing, target the biggest uploaders, make a mountain out of that molehill and the majority toes the line...

Actually the term' no harm in swapping files' is not about NMT discussion per se, there's harm in swapping files - just as the ad before many DVD says, would you steal from a Video shop?  But I am no hypocrite, I support originals but nobody can be 100% legit these days.

I think Firewired's solution should work for now, and go back to the issue as it materializes.  It's a fluid situation.  Before you know it, NMT might be as commonplace as DVD players.  If I'm not wrong, I seen one at CDR-King.  That's a sign that it will soon reach mass market... and if the mass media catches on, OMB might take notice.  So as said PinoyDVD's policy is in fact doing the sellers a favor. 

[iiinas]

net pirates are hard to catch but offline stores aren't.  Like targetting stores that sell preloaded PC with unlicensed Windows, it was a success that few store does now.  There are other ways like what the RIAA is doing, target the biggest uploaders, make a mountain out of that molehill and the majority toes the line...

Actually the term' no harm in swapping files' is not about NMT discussion per se, there's harm in swapping files - just as the ad before many DVD says, would you steal from a Video shop?  But I am no hypocrite, I support originals but nobody can be 100% legit these days.

I think Firewired's solution should work for now, and go back to the issue as it materializes.  It's a fluid situation.  Before you know it, NMT might be as commonplace as DVD players.  If I'm not wrong, I seen one at CDR-King.  That's a sign that it will soon reach mass market... and if the mass media catches on, OMB might take notice.  So as said PinoyDVD's policy is in fact doing the sellers a favor. 

 

[streetsmart]

Thank you, firewired!

@barrister, thank you for the legal clarifications. I learned something new today.  

[Dan]

I'm satisfied that sir firewired has an open mind and has a deep understanding about the issues.

As always, I will accept whatever position the mods will take, knowing that such positions are never arbitrary, but always carefully deliberated.



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I don't think so.

That post clearly specifies that it's the NMT itself that he objects to, because of its mere "ability".

I'd have to disagree.

[barrister]

Then let's just agree to disagree. 

[Clondalkin]

I'd have to disagree.

I'd have to disagree with the disagreement.   I dont think the OP, for whatever reason, can segregate the NMT device from what it does so well and what it can potentially do.  And I cannot appreciate at all the antagonistic attitude towards the very strong performance of the NMT against the BD.  Eh kung talagang maganda ba eh.  In any case,why feel threatened at all if you already have what you think is the best technology available at the moment?  UNFAIR sa collectors? - yung nakaka-afford nga to maintain 100% legitimacy ang dapat kainggitan eh.    Anybody here who loves NMTS or HTPC ever thought of "Screw BD?"  

That's why I voted for WTH are you talking about.  

But yeah, the discussions certainly crossed the line because so many grown ups started acting like kids wanting and praising their marvelous Xmas toy in utter excitement.  But were they intentionally promoting piracy?  Or it doesnt matter whether the intention was there or not.    

[Mouldingo]

  
May legal ba na Ironman HD na puwede i-download? Pati Band of Brothers, meron din ba? Saan ba galing mga kopya ng mga iyan? Di ba kung may kopya ka na puwedeng libre, ayaw mo na ng bumili ng orig. Pareho din sa sa pirated na DVD. Piracy is still piracy. HD files played NMTs and HTPCs are pirated/ripped files since there are no legal HD files to speak of...

Bro, the following link is my "bible" for HD DVD ripping and converting to mkv.   "Bible" meaning I've read and understood it well (or so I thought), but in real life, it's certainly not that convenient to do especially with the time constraints.    The ripping part is quite straightforward and fast using AnyDVD HD.  The conversion part is the headache (or could be the fun part depending on your outlook).   Can be done but DL is much more convenient especially for simultaneous acquisition.   

I havent tried a BD yet because I don't have BD, but it appears to me that BD conversion is even more complicated than that of of HD DVD.  Good luck anyways and have fun.

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=14452

Havent tried Windows Media Center with mkv yet.

Cheers

BTW Bro, any playback problems with some of the 1080ps using your gadgets?  Since I came back to Tokyo, I spent some time "actually watching" and set aside some very problematic 1080ps.  Even my C2D powered PC gumagapang sa bigat somewhere along the 2-hour playback. 

So what I have been doing is replacing those titles with ones that play well (720p nga lang).  For instance, that great 10-part WW2 classic about the 101st Airborne, I have gotten the 45GB "smooth" version because the 50GB+ version that you have is so bloody heavy on my systems.  Pati si Arnold sa Mars, kinuhaan ko na ng watchable version.  Still in the process of finding smooth versions of Keanu extracting hydrogen from water and recently, that movie about a highly placed CIA mole.  　　　

If your NMT(s) can  play all those 1080ps well, then that would be the biggest advantage of an NMT over a PC.  Would really appreciate if you could share your experience with the 1080ps Bro - kung may problem I'll find the alternatives here.  Thanks

Let's take the 1080p challenge.

Please watch the following 1080p titles using your NMTs and share your experience.  These titles can turn my C2D PC to a zombie.

1.  3:10 Yuma
2.  Chain Reactions
3.  Elizabeth The Golden Age
4.  Total Recall
5.  The Other Boleyn Girl
6.  Band of Brothers
7.  Breach (BTW, C2D managed to play this but the audio and video are out of synch.   If its any consolation, 780G chipset based PC of my friend is NO GO)

If you dont any of the above, I can let you have them during my next vacation to test your NMTs.

Meron talagang maayos na encodes (or magaling na encoders - those whose MEGUI does not crash during the conversion to mkv), or tolerable yung frequency ng stutters and/or out-of-synch.  Sana ganon lahat.

Mga OK na 1080ps I've watch so far (well Ok for my C2D but not ok for my Pentium D).   Still not perfect for some but tolerable enough to completely watch.

Ironman
Vantage Point
Michael Clayton
Anger Management
John Mayer LA Concert
Batman Begins
Shinobi
Basic Instinct
Street Kings
Mummy 1
Mummy 2
Million Dollar Baby
Xmen 3
The Usual Suspects
Spiderwick Chronicles
The Ruins
The Island
The Bank Job
Star Wars 1 - 6
Sin City
Reign Over Me
Ratatouille
Rambo 1-4
National Treasures 1
National Treasures 2
Matrix 1 - 3
LOTR 1 - 3
Indy Jones 1 - 3
Ice Age 2
Hitch
Heroes Season 2
Gangs Of New York
Fool's Gold
Fantastic 4
Elizabeth
Drillbit Taylor
Catch and Release
Brave One
Blood Diamond
Black Hawk Down
Behind Enemy Lines
Batle Of The Bulge
A Mighty Heart
88 Minutes
50 First Dates
2001 Space Odyssey
12 Monkeys

Again, some  are not as perfect as 720ps in terms of playback but acceptable imperfections.

KELAN? KELAN? Santa Claus!

oo nga sir clondalkin, sabihan mo lang kami, and will like to have the above stuff.

 
 

[Clondalkin]

I think that everybody who buys an NMT has got to be thinking of watching movies first and foremost, so I'd have to agree with the OP's contention of that.   Whatever else you do with your NMT that are very much legal depends on the individual owner.

It should be common sense by now that any seller who sells an HDD packaged with NMT has got to contain something.  Otherwise, that woud be like giving you a car in the middle of the desert with empty tank.  It is already widely known that those sellers and many other members have some contents in whatever storage media they own.  So lets just stop talking about those contents publicly.   Kase kapag may nagtanong, maraming sasagot eh.  Unang una na siguro ako.

So, dun sa mga interested sa NMTs, please refrain from posting lines such as "meron bang freebies", "what are the freebies", "please PM the freebies", "endless refills" "PM the list" etc.   Just contact the seller privately if you want more details.  

[Mouldingo]

.

So, dun sa mga interested sa NMTs, please refrain from posting lines such as "meron bang freebies", "what are the freebies", "please PM the freebies", "endless refills" "PM the list" etc.   Just contact the seller privately if you want more details.  

 Right sir Gren?

Hi guys, I have about 3 500gb drive units ready.  Just SMS me to claim.

I filled it to the brim, but we can trim off a few titles so we can add in a few more that you'd want.

SMS or email me for standard set listing :>

My yahoo ID is richie_see btw.

[Clondalkin]

Sir Clodalkin, may legal ba na Ironman HD na puwede in download? Pati Band of Brothers, meron din ba?

Perhaps meron BOB legally, pero wala pa Ironman for sure.  So you think I am promoting piracy by informing people what they might want to read about instead of simply looking at what I think are mindless pictures showing of BD cases?   I really dont mind I guess but basahin mo mabuti yung posts ko.  I am trying to clarify just how good the NMT or the HTPC perform because I was stunned by the results of the shoot-out.   I do cross the line sometimes or maybe oftentimes because it's hard to explain the point without doing so.  Bahala ka to interpret it any way you want.  I would even recommend something like The BBC HD Special on The Shroud of Turin and Walking The Bible which you would probably never ever see on a BD.  Well you might not be interested if you are not a Christian, or your conscience and principles might not be able to take that.  But you know what, I sleep better at night because I spend the equivalent of close to 75 pieces worth of BD every year sending total Filipino strangers with very poor background to high school.  Might not justify my preferences in terms of acquisition at all,  but kanya kanya lang priorities at buhay yan.  Just be thankful of what you have.


 

 

[Mouldingo]

 But you know what, I sleep better at night because I spend the equivalent of close to 75 pieces worth of BD every year sending total Filipino strangers with very poor background to high school.  Might not justify my preferences in terms of acquisition at all,  but kanya kanya lang priorities at buhay yan.  Just be thankful of what you have.

Would you encourage PinoyDVD people to buy legal HD copies instead of downloading/swapping "free" files?

[gren]

Actually, that's the 'quaint' thing about NMT's, especially here in the philippines -- we don't have any service that would allow legal downloading of HD content.

If it were available and reasonably priced (e.g. same cost as a 2 disc dvd, for example), I think there would be a lot of takers.

Personally, more than the quality of the content NMT's can play, I really enjoy the ability to have your ENTIRE library at your finger tips.  I've ripped my personal collection, whether that's legal or not is one thing, whether it's FAIR USE is another, but I digress.

But personally I think we should just limit our discussions to the NMT hardware itself -- particularly what it can and cannot do, the problems involved and it's other potential uses (network storage, multi-media jukebox).

I personally would like to see the eventual facilitation and legalisation of legal P2P downloads, but that's really another discussion.  My hope is that we see beyond mere finger pointing and open our minds towards possibilities rather than just close ourselves against something that has the potential to change how we acquire, view and store our beloved movies.

I'm confident that most people will find the above agreeable at the very least :>

EDIT: grammatical correction

Would you encourage PinoyDVD people to buy legal HD copies instead of downloading/swapping "free" files?

[Clondalkin]

Would you encourage PinoyDVD people to buy legal HD copies instead of downloading/swapping "free" files?

I encourage them to experience HD but it's none of my business what any member would like to do with their life.  As I wrote, everybody has his priorities.  I know what piracy is all about but I cannot be inconsiderate to agree that if you cannot afford to buy HD, then you should not experience HD.   That's seflishness in my Filipino heart.  If someone can afford to buy legal copies, great, fine.  If not, so be it.  This is the Philippines we are talking about.   I was totally legit of DVDs until June 2006.   Completely legit of CDs since 1990.  Completely legit of Xbox, Ipod and PC until now, but I dont' have anything against people who have more than me in terms of quantities just because they chose the "cheaper" option.  I let Hollywood, Microsoft and the music studios worry about that.  

I get lots of PMs and emails from members and lurkers asking for technical information on how to use their PCs, or set-up their PCs, or stream their stuff, or rip their collections, or torrents 101.    All those sorts of things.   I dont see any problem sharing my knowledge and I dont care what they do about that as long as they dont kill anybody with the info I share.   Besides, most of the info being asked are actually available in the biggest public library called the internet pero yung ibang tao gusto lang ng step by step guideline.    But among the messages I ignore are all requests for file sharing, offers to buy my files alone, requests for invitations.  

I think if I were in your position, I would just be a very happy camper.

[Mouldingo]

But personally I think we should just limit our discussions to the NMT hardware itself -- particularly what it can and cannot do, the problems involved and it's other potential uses (network storage, multi-media jukebox).

I

EDIT: grammatical correction

you can start by deleting your offer of 100 "free" titles

[alvinh]

I think that because of the excitement that the NMT generated,  we actually forgot about what should be discussed in private and in public. At one point, I was guilty of this.

Let's face it folks, whether we agree with "file swaps" or "downloading" or whatever else is out there, they exist. And they will continue to exist with or without our involvement. I am new at NMT (all I have is a real popcorn bucket) but I'd be lying if I say that I did not enjoy my first night with it connected to my panel.

Is it the NMT that's the issue here? I believe not.

I agree with Richie. Let's talk about NMT's other features/uses/technology...I'm sure it can do more than just play HD movies.
And as far as "matters" that should be kept private...let's keep them private. We all know what those are.

So, should subjects on NMT be banned?..."one topic" should be..the rest, IMo, shouldn't.

[firewired]

We've received e-mail from concerned members about the discussion of pirated DVDs on the site. After much thought, we've decided that a certain degree of tact and caution never hurt anyone, so here's the deal:

PinoyDVD.com is about DVDs for DVD enthusiasts. We are interested in the content and technical aspects of the DVD format, the joys of collecting, frustrations regarding pricing and availability, etc. However, the details of where and how you get your DVDs is your business, not ours. While collectively we don't agree with enforced regional coding, we do recognize that piracy is a critical concern for everyone, whether you reject it, endorse it, or occasionally participate in it.

Therefore, please limit all posts to movie title and technical references, and refrain from mentioning and discussing pirated discs. You can buy your DVDs for P10 for all we care, but if a person wants details about where you got the disc, please discuss it over PM or e-mail. As always, we reserve the right to edit posts that we feel may not represent the best interests of the community.

This is the policy that's currently in place. I'll be updating it within the next 2 days as we make changes to the relevant forums.

This poll thread and the one that preceded it will eventually be transferred.

[Mr. Hankey]

Locked again, since with recent posts [which were subsequently deleted, making this post look stupid  ], I really see this thread escalating into a flame war very soon.

Sorry.