Topic: The Holy Bible In Our Christian Life

[Schrodinger's cat]

Hmm, chanced upon this thread just now. I noticed that sir @barrister bases his Bible interpretations on the works of Walter Wink (noted theologian/Bible scholar/proponent of Progressive Christianity). Perhaps many people here may find his views/interpretations persuasive, just google his articles.

I'm just curious sir @barrister on your [interpretation] of reincarnation based on the Bible. Many thanks sir.

[barrister]

I'm just curious sir @barrister on your [interpretation] of reincarnation based on the Bible. Many thanks sir.

There is no such thing as reincarnation in the bible. 
 
 

Hmm, chanced upon this thread just now. I noticed that sir @barrister bases his Bible interpretations on the works of Walter Wink (noted theologian/Bible scholar/proponent of Progressive Christianity). Perhaps many people here may find his views/interpretations persuasive, just google his articles.

It's true that I pick up opinions and interpretations from other writers.  However, I've never heard of Walter Wink before.

I tried googling his articles to see if he has any views that differ from mine. 

In "Homosexuality and Christian Faith: Questions of Conscience for the Churches," Wink wrote:  When one of Noah’s sons beheld his father naked, he was cursed (Gen 9:20-27). To a great extent, this taboo probably even inhibited the sexual intimacy of husbands and wives (this is still true of a surprising number of people reared in the Judeo-Christian tradition).  In a 2001 speech, Wink said:  Remember the story of Noah who's drunk and naked? His son sees him and he's cursed for looking on his father's nakedness.

Wink is saying that Ham's transgression was brought about by the mere fact that he saw his father naked.  I disagree.

Ham accidentally finds his father Noah drunk and sleeping naked in a tent.  Ham goes outside and tells his two brothers Shem and Japheth about their naked father.  Then Shem and Japheth go inside the tent and cover their father with a garment.     

It wasn't Ham's fault that he saw his father naked, since it was an accident.  It was Noah's own fault that he got himself drunk and naked.
 
Ham's transgression arose from what he did afterwards.  Does Ham throw a blanket over Noah to cover his nudity?  No, Ham just goes out and tells his two brothers about their father's indignity.  Hindi na nga tinulungan, lalo pang hiniya.               

[Schrodinger's cat]

There is no such thing as reincarnation in the bible. 

I see.

It's true that I pick up opinions and interpretations from other writers.  However, I've never heard of Walter Wink before.

Oh, I stand corrected sir. Since many other writers lift their interpretations from him, maybe in one way or another these were inadvertently picked up by you through them.

Many thanks sir.

[barrister]

Oh, I stand corrected sir. Since many other writers lift their interpretations from him, maybe in one way or another these were inadvertently picked up by you through them.

Yes, that may be true. 

Be that as it may, in case of similarities, it does not automatically mean that a certain interpretation was in fact orginally formulated by Wink.  It's entirely possible that Wink had also lifted the idea from someone else, or that an author might have formulated the interpretation independently of Wink or anyone else.   

[Schrodinger's cat]

Yes, that may be true. 

Be that as it may, in case of similarities, it does not automatically mean that a certain interpretation was in fact orginally formulated by Wink.  It's entirely possible that Wink had also lifted the idea from someone else, or that an author might have formulated the interpretation independently of Wink or anyone else.   

Yes, this is why [ideally] we should make it a practice to [consistently] attribute interpretations lifted from others, lest these be [mis]construed by readers as our own. No offense to anyone, btw

[barrister]

You're right.

It's hard to cite the original source when there are already several exisitng blog and forum posts and articles saying basically the same thing, without citations, and you can't tell who said it first.

Honestly, none of my interpretations are original.  I just browse though several interpretations, then I stick to one that I agree with.

But it's not an easy task, since there are so many biblical interpretations out there that are really nonsensical... 
 

[nerveblocker]

I was just doing my daily devotion and read this...timely...coincidential

38 As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, 39 and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40 They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.” -Mark 12:38-40

[nerveblocker]

In the middle of the storm, remember this...

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”

Mark 4:39-40

[Nelson de Leon]

In the middle of the storm, remember this...

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”

Mark 4:39-40

Very timely. Sana huwag malakas dito sa Manila.

[nerveblocker]

Let us just put our hope and trust in Jesus Christ who is the Rock that never wears down through the ages and eternity.

 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.--Matthew 7:24-25

[ArtMusic]

I have been studying salvation for the past few weeks....
Christians will be saved once they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
And Salvation will NOT be gone even though they commit some sins whether intentional or
not intentional.  Like 'Once Saved, Always Saved' belief.

For me kasi, nawawala ang salvation kapag gumawa ang isang Kristiano ng kasalanan.
Some say, we have been saved by Grace not by works.
In Revelation kasi, even though the names are already written in the Book of Life,
God can still blot them out. So it means, nawawala talaga ang salvation. Tama ba?

[Nelson de Leon]

I have been studying salvation for the past few weeks....
Christians will be saved once they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
And Salvation will NOT be gone even though they commit some sins whether intentional or
not intentional.  Like 'Once Saved, Always Saved' belief.

For me kasi, nawawala ang salvation kapag gumawa ang isang Kristiano ng kasalanan.
Some say, we have been saved by Grace not by works.
In Revelation kasi, even though the names are already written in the Book of Life,
God can still blot them out. So it means, nawawala talaga ang salvation. Tama ba?

Medjo doctrinal na din ito sir pero hindi pa din natin alam ang mga names na nasa Book of Life. And probably, ang bawa't isa lang ang makaka-alam if we are truly saved or not. Lately i try not to ponder on those doctrines lately. Mahirap sagutin ang tanong ninyo because in conflict din ito sa ibang interpretation/sect. Sabihin na lang natin na we are all asking God for salvation. Either way naman sir, armenianism or calvinism, salvation by faith comes from God alone.

[barrister]

I have been studying salvation for the past few weeks....
Christians will be saved once they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
And Salvation will NOT be gone even though they commit some sins whether intentional or
not intentional.  Like 'Once Saved, Always Saved' belief.

For me kasi, nawawala ang salvation kapag gumawa ang isang Kristiano ng kasalanan.
Some say, we have been saved by Grace not by works.
In Revelation kasi, even though the names are already written in the Book of Life,
God can still blot them out. So it means, nawawala talaga ang salvation. Tama ba?

 
Ang gusto ng threadstarter na sir Nelson ay iwasan ang away-away sa thread na ito.  Kaya iniiwasan natin ang mga controversial issues. 
 
Ang controversial issues ay yung mga covered ng denominational doctrines.
 
Ang tanong mo ay tungkol sa doctrine ng "Once Saved always Saved" or "OSAS."  Controversial yan.  So on this thread, all I can say is that OSAS is a Calvinist doctrine that was originated by John Calvin during the Protestant Reformation (16th Century).
 
We can't discuss it in detail here kasi giyera patani lang ang ibibigay niyan.
 
Ok lang kung sa ibang thread.  For example:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1741433.html#msg1741433
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1741507.html#msg1741507
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1742794.html#msg1742794
 
 

[ArtMusic]

 
Ang gusto ng threadstarter na sir Nelson ay iwasan ang away-away sa thread na ito.  Kaya iniiwasan natin ang mga controversial issues. 
 
Ang controversial issues ay yung mga covered ng denominational doctrines.
 
Ang tanong mo ay tungkol sa doctrine ng "Once Saved always Saved" or "OSAS."  Controversial yan.  So on this thread, all I can say is that OSAS is a Calvinist doctrine that was originated by John Calvin during the Protestant Reformation (16th Century).
 
We can't discuss it in detail here kasi giyera patani lang ang ibibigay niyan.
 
Ok lang kung sa ibang thread.  For example:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1741433.html#msg1741433
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1741507.html#msg1741507
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,141525.msg1742794.html#msg1742794
 
 

But with all honesty, I had no idea that my question will create a controversy and it was far from my intention to create one.  As I have stated, I have been studying salvation for how many days and  still confuse.  The only answer na medyo satisfied ako is when someone answered me with a question... 'Tingin mo ba tanga ang Diyos na hindi niya alam kung sino ang totoong tumangap sa Kanya?'    So, ito tuloy ang naisip ko that there 2 kinds of Christians i.e. the believer of Christ and the Follower of Christ and the Follower of Christ ang totoong Kristiano. Just my opinion.   

Anyway, thanks for directing me to that religion thread.  Hindi ko pa nababasa yun... but let me check. 

May the grace of God be with us!!!

[nerveblocker]

In times that we feel that we do not earn much or sometimes we are not able to meet our daily expenses.  I have read a passage that will add to our confidence and faith in the Lord.

19 “Because of your great compassion you did not abandon them in the wilderness. By day the pillar of cloud did not fail to guide them on their path, nor the pillar of fire by night to shine on the way they were to take. 20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them. You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst. 21 For forty years you sustained them in the wilderness; they lacked nothing, their clothes did not wear out nor did their feet become swollen. --Nehemiah 9:19-21

"God will not give everything you want, but he will always give everything you need."

[nerveblocker]

I have been studying salvation for the past few weeks....
Christians will be saved once they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

-Yes.  The moment that they have accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour,  they are saved.  Remember the thief that was also crucified with Jesus who believed. Luke 23:42-43

And Salvation will NOT be gone even though they commit some sins whether intentional or
not intentional.  Like 'Once Saved, Always Saved' belief.

For me kasi, nawawala ang salvation kapag gumawa ang isang Kristiano ng kasalanan.
Some say, we have been saved by Grace not by works.

-Once you are saved, this does not mean that you can sin all you can and can go to heaven regardless of what you do.  Remember that man has a sinful nature and he will always stumble and sin.  The difference between a Christian sinning is that when he sins, he acknowledges/recognizes and repents against that sin right away and confesses to the Lord.  You have a personal relationship with the Lord, a very strong one which is strengthened by daily Bible readings and prayers.  As a result, your works and words will reflect that relationship with God.  So it is not being saved by good works but be saved first and doing good works as a manifestation of your relationship with God.

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.--Isiah 64:6

Grace is the free and unmerited favor of God. Grace means that it is freely given to you even if you do not deserve it.  All you have to do is just accept his gift of salvation and live the Christian life.

In Revelation kasi, even though the names are already written in the Book of Life,
God can still blot them out. So it means, nawawala talaga ang salvation. Tama ba?

-God knows everything and your future.  So what is written in the Book of Life is absolute because God will know your decisions in your life before you make them and the result of your decisions.

Being a Christian is a way of Life.  Enjoy it!

[barrister]

Sir neverblocker, you might not know it, but the issues you are discussing are controversial.  I won't comment on which side I agree with; all I can say is that they are controversial.
 
 
1.  One side says the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior" is biblical.
 
The other side says it's an unbiblical catchphrase popularized by 20th century Evangelical Protestants, especially the American televangelists.  Possible earliest origin is the "sinner's prayer" style of American Evangelical Protestant Dwight L. Moody in the late 1800s.
 
 
2.  One side says salvation is an instantaneous event.
 
The other side says salvation is not instantaneous, but a process.  The thief on the cross is not the rule but the exception, since he was already at the point of death.
 
 
3.  One side says salvation requires good works.
 
The other side says "Once Saved Always Saved" means after being "saved," you can do anything you want because you "cannot sin."   (⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [1 Jn. 3:9])  Therefore, only faith is required.
 
 
4.  One side says God knows everything.
 
The other side says the word "Omniscient" is not found in the bible because there are some things God does not know.  God did not know beforehand that Adam would eat the fruit.  God did not know beforehand that Abraham would obey the command to sacrifice Isaac.

[JT]

"God will not give everything you want, but he will always give everything you need."

Kapatid, Faith is like our currency in heaven. God responds to one's FAITH, not to wants or needs.

[JT]

I have been studying salvation for the past few weeks....
Christians will be saved once they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
And Salvation will NOT be gone even though they commit some sins whether intentional or
not intentional.  Like 'Once Saved, Always Saved' belief.

For me kasi, nawawala ang salvation kapag gumawa ang isang Kristiano ng kasalanan.
Some say, we have been saved by Grace not by works.
In Revelation kasi, even though the names are already written in the Book of Life,
God can still blot them out. So it means, nawawala talaga ang salvation. Tama ba?

How do u receive salvation in the first place? Then the reverse of it, you looses salvation. So as long as you are fulfilling the condition for salvation, then God will honour His covenant or promise to you.

Parang nung kay Adam and Eve. Ang covenant with God not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.  Kaya yun ang temptation nung devil sa kanila.  Bakit hindi tinukso si Eve na patayin si Adam or break other law in the ten commandments???  Kasi yun lang ang condition na binigay ni God. Di pa naman binibigay yung ten commandments.

Same is true here, the devil's temptations to every believer now is to divert them from the condition given by God whereby man will be saved. So the devil creates lots of confusion or controversies regarding this.

So how u loose salvation, by UNBELIEF & by RELIGIOSITY in which you will have the tendency again to try earn your salvation by good works.

[rexFi]

Cool discussion

Anyway, anyone can confirm kung anong klaseng Christian si Paul Walker?

Just saw this quote from his IMDB page:

I'm a Christian now. The things that drove me crazy growing up was how everyone works at fault-finding with different religions. The people I don't understand are atheists. I go surfing and snow boarding and I'm always around nature. I look at everything and think, 'Who couldn't believe there's a God? Is all this a mistake?' It just blows me away.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0908094/bio?ref_=nm_dyk_qt_sm#quotes

 

Same as me, one of the reason I'm Christian is because of The Creation.

[RU9]

So how u loose salvation, by UNBELIEF & by RELIGIOSITY in which you will have the tendency again to try earn your salvation by good works.

Please expound, got confused.

if you do not believe in salvation, no need to earn salvation.

[RU9]

Same as me, one of the reason I'm Christian is because of The Creation.

A muslim can also say "I am a Muslim because of the The Creation".

[rexFi]

A muslim can also say "I am a Muslim because of the The Creation".

Good for them, the topic of Salvation By Faith Alone, God's true identity its what's left for them to find out by God's grace etc.

I did say its just one of my reasons. ^

[dpogs]

Every step is getting brighter
As the golden stairs I climb;
Every burden's getting lighter,
Every cloud is silver-lined.
There the sun is always shining,
There no tear will dim the eye;
At the ending of the rainbow
Where the mountains touch the sky.

I don't know about tomorrow;
It may bring me poverty.
But the one who feeds the sparrow,
Is the one who stands by me.
And the path that is my portion
May be through the flame or flood;
But His presence goes before me
And I'm covered with His blood



If God can take care of the sparrow how much more for me who is more valuable than the sparrow...the love of God keeps me going... Matthew 10:31

I dont need to worry what food to eat, or clothes to wear... God will take care of me... Matthew 6:26

[JT]

Please expound, got confused.

if you do not believe in salvation, no need to earn salvation.

Do u mind telling me your point first? I need to know where you are coming from so that I can answer properly.

[rexFi]

Do u mind telling me your point first? I need to know where you are coming from so that I can answer properly.

because you said

...by UNBELIEF & by RELIGIOSITY in which you will have the tendency again to try earn your salvation by good works.

I think he understood your statement to mean the person is "not believing IN salvation" already, why then should he still try to earn it?

So I guess the statement should have been ..by Unbelief "or" religiosity.

Kampai!

[RU9]

Thank you , Rex. That's what I was asking.

[newbie pa rin]

 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(John 3:3 KJV)

 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(John 3:5 KJV)

How can you confirm if you have been born of the Spirit?

[JT]

Thank you , Rex. That's what I was asking.

RU9, I want to hear directly from you.  What's your question again?

Please make it as detailed as possible because I just really wanted to be very clear on which part your are confused. And giving an example would help.

Thanks.

[rexFi]

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(John 3:3 KJV)

 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(John 3:5 KJV)

How can you confirm if you have been born of the Spirit?

Quick answer for me is if you analyze your life and see your Faith has produced good fruits(James 2) then you have been "born" again by receiving The Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (NASB)

This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?