Topic: Plasma vs LCD ?

[barrister]

did I just experience image burn?  I forgot to turn off my plasma last night while watching HBO and I fell asleep.  When I woke up, that's about 3 hours and swicthed to a blank screen, I noticed that the logo of HBO was there.  How can I get rid of it, I'm afraid that it's already stucked there.

Im using Panasonic Pv8 by the way.

Did you do a break-in procedure for your TV before regular use?

I doubt if that is image burn.  It's probably IR (image retention), which eventually goes away by itself.

Both are ghost images caused by high brightness on a portion of the screen for extended time periods, but burn-in is permanent; IR is temporary.  

Burn-in results from uneven phosphor aging; IR results from residual charge in the plasma cell that goes away after the charge in all cells eventually equalize.

[Nemesis91]

iR lang yan guys.

[milken]

No contest... winner is Projector.... SIZE MATTERS 

If not considering the size, would projectors display better picture quality, deep black and excellent details as compared to a plasma at the same price point (e.g. P100T Plasma vs. P100T projector)?  Correct me if I'm wrong, I had the impression that of the three technologies, plasma offers the best picture quality, LCD offers the best all-around HDTV and projector offers the best value in terms of price vs. size. 

[Munskie]

did I just experience image burn?  I forgot to turn off my plasma last night while watching HBO and I fell asleep.  When I woke up, that's about 3 hours and swicthed to a blank screen, I noticed that the logo of HBO was there.  How can I get rid of it, I'm afraid that it's already stucked there.

Im using Panasonic Pv8 by the way.

I think image retention.....sa akin nga mas lumang model (although not the same brand), watched the Olympics for nearly 6 hours last night.....wala ako makita burn-in....eh sangkatutak na station logo ng Solar, meron pa scoreboards sa screen. 

[E-reply]

If not considering the size, would projectors display better picture quality, deep black and excellent details as compared to a plasma at the same price point (e.g. P100T Plasma vs. P100T projector)?  Correct me if I'm wrong, I had the impression that of the three technologies, plasma offers the best picture quality, LCD offers the best all-around HDTV and projector offers the best value in terms of price vs. size. 

Nowadays, the front projector can display awesome picture with details and good level of black contrast. It delivers a better dramatic impact than the plasma TV because of the size it can project. With a dark room, the projector can display better picture than plasma in detail, deep black, and natural color. However, when choosing a projector, you need to evaluate the picture before you buy. Some projectors that claim high contrast ratio may not deliver good deep black at all in actual. Another aspect to consider is to evaluate the skin tone. A good projector should deliver good skin tone and deep black contrast.

[iiinas]

Nowadays, the front projector can display awesome picture with details and good level of black contrast. It delivers a better dramatic impact than the plasma TV because of the size it can project. With a dark room, the projector can display better picture than plasma in detail, deep black, and natural color. However, when choosing a projector, you need to evaluate the picture before you buy. Some projectors that claim high contrast ratio may not deliver good deep black at all in actual. Another aspect to consider is to evaluate the skin tone. A good projector should deliver good skin tone and deep black contrast.

agree with sir vic here.  .

lets say you have 150k to burn, your choice would be a 50+" panny or pioneer plasma (add a little more) or a 1080p panny ae2000 which can easily give you a 100-120" picture, with both technology giving you same pq. no contest, i'd take the pj. 

[ericag_ph]

IR...Burn-in...what's the difference?  It's both a nuissance to Plasma.

So is "IR" more common in Plasma than LCD?
http://dvice.com/archives/2008/05/shift_image_ret.php

This makes me now think that the Plasma market just invented
the name "Image Retention" simply to replace the same
thing which we "simple folk" call "BURN-IN" - whether it is permanent or temporary.
How long is "temporary"? 
http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html

Good thing we all have this thread to know that it isn't a thing of the past afterall. 
"While burn in isn't a problem anymore, your plasma TV will be prone to image retention.
if they knew how high-maintenance plasmas can be, might decide to sacrifice a little image quality so they never have to worry about how long they display news scrolls and channel icons.
If you think you might lose sleep over this, you'll be better off with an LCD." It's a mouthful, but it's the truth.


Did you know that if you buy a plasma TV, you're supposed to spend the first 100 to 200 hours "breaking it in" like an uncomfortable pair of shoes? During this period, (around two months if you watch three hours every day), experts advise you to turn down the contrast ratio to less than 50%, turn the sidebars to gray if you're watching material with a 4:3 ratio, watch movies on zoom, and limit your gaming.

Glad we cleared that up    Talk about inconvenience...as a "simple" buyer, all I want to do is watch and not have to worry about problems like IR, break-in, burn-in of a Plasma TV.  Sure it has the best PQ...but PQ isn't everything 

Dead pixels are looking a whole lot preferrable for LCD now 
For LCD dead pixel repair:
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/04/lcd-dead-pixels-test-check-and-repair.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjTX4XAoqK8



It still boils down to the buyer's criteria.
- In my case even if Plasma can give the greatest PQ on earth...but if I watch only cable, AVIs, f*ke DVDs...  one doesn't really need all that PQ. 

I'd rather not worry and get an LCD.     And once again, I have a hard time trying to find anything wrong with the PQ of an LCD, specially after callibration.  All I can say is WOW    
and no worries even when watching 4:3 for loooong periods on a 16:9 screen


...and that good people is called "research". 

[oReOsHaKe]

IR...Burn-in...what's the difference?  It's both a nuissance to Plasma.

So is "IR" more common in Plasma than LCD?
http://dvice.com/archives/2008/05/shift_image_ret.php

This makes me now think that the Plasma market just invented
the name "Image Retention" simply to replace the same
thing which we "simple folk" call "BURN-IN" - whether it is permanent or temporary.
How long is "temporary"? 
http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html

Good thing we all have this thread to know that it isn't a thing of the past afterall. 
"While burn in isn't a problem anymore, your plasma TV will be prone to image retention.
if they knew how high-maintenance plasmas can be, might decide to sacrifice a little image quality so they never have to worry about how long they display news scrolls and channel icons.
If you think you might lose sleep over this, you'll be better off with an LCD." It's a mouthful, but it's the truth.


Did you know that if you buy a plasma TV, you're supposed to spend the first 100 to 200 hours "breaking it in" like an uncomfortable pair of shoes? During this period, (around two months if you watch three hours every day), experts advise you to turn down the contrast ratio to less than 50%, turn the sidebars to gray if you're watching material with a 4:3 ratio, watch movies on zoom, and limit your gaming.

Glad we cleared that up    Talk about inconvenience...as a "simple" buyer, all I want to do is watch and not have to worry about problems like IR, break-in, burn-in of a Plasma TV.  Sure it has the best PQ...but PQ isn't everything 

Dead pixels are looking a whole lot preferrable for LCD now 
For LCD dead pixel repair:
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/04/lcd-dead-pixels-test-check-and-repair.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjTX4XAoqK8



It still boils down to the buyer's criteria.
- In my case even if Plasma can give the greatest PQ on earth...but if I watch only cable, AVIs, f*ke DVDs...  one doesn't really need all that PQ. 

I'd rather not worry and get an LCD.     And once again, I have a hard time trying to find anything wrong with the PQ of an LCD, specially after callibration.  All I can say is WOW    
and no worries even when watching 4:3 for loooong periods on a 16:9 screen


...and that good people is called "research". 

I will still go for Plasma..  If you're too worried about IR or BI, then go for the other technologies.. No one is stopping you.. 

[Nemesis91]

Daming galit kasi sa plasma eh, ang ganda kasi ng kulay! hahaha..

2006 pa yung review.

[2ne]

Daming galit kasi sa plasma eh, ang ganda kasi ng kulay! hahaha..

talagang ganyan ata sir pag galit....madaming "research" na nagagawa..hahaha plasma pa rin!

[Munskie]

I will still go for Plasma..  If you're too worried about IR or BI, then go for the other technologies.. No one is stopping you.. 

Daming galit kasi sa plasma eh, ang ganda kasi ng kulay! hahaha..

Hehehe....buti na lang di na ako worried sa IR or BI na yan.   Basta masaya ako sa PQ ng Plasma.   Wala pa eye strain!! 



Ang tagal ko nag "research" tungkol sa LCD (coz I was deadset to get one).  Wala pala kwenta yung "research" nung nakita ko side by side audition ng Plasma vs LCD.    No doubt in my choice. 


Again...to each his own. 

[2ne]

Wala pa eye strain!! 

Ang tagal ko nag "research" tungkol sa LCD (coz I was deadset to get one) wala pala kwenta nung nakita ko side by side audition ng Plasma vs LCD.   

Again...to each his own. 

i'm sure sir galit ka sa LCD dahil nag "research" ka  true, kanya kanya yan basta mag "research" lng

[Munskie]

i'm sure sir galit ka sa LCD dahil nag "research" ka  true, kanya kanya yan basta mag "research" lng

Di naman......happy lang ako sa choice of panel ko.   

[Nemesis91]

talagang ganyan ata sir pag galit....madaming "research" na nagagawa..hahaha plasma pa rin!

hahahaha!

[barrister]

Remember the first message I posted on my "The Plasma Thread"?

Plasma owners, please post! 

Kawawa naman ang mga plasma fanboys, walang makausap!   

At the time, it was a little embarrassing to start a plasma thread.  I was worried that members might think I was just a plasma lover who was too dumb to see that LCD is better.   

Well, times have changed.  Today, the longest flat panel thread here is the "Panasonic 42pv70H Rocks!!!", 45 pages long.  I'm sure the new "Panasonic 42PV8 - Bang for the Buck" thread will catch up in no time.

Nearly all of those buyers are aware of burn-in, image retention, and the hassle of break-in procedures, yet they still chose plasma.  For them, picture quality is paramount.   

If others prefer LCD, then I'm happy for them.  After all, LCD is still the most popular flat panel everywhere in the world.

All I can say is that it's good be be able to have a choice.

It still boils down to the buyer's criteria.

That's right.

LCD owners love their LCDs.  Plasma owners love their plasmas.  Everybody happy.

[Nemesis91]

anyway mura naman ng lcd now eh, parang laptop lang ang price.
quantity over quality

[barrister]

Mas mura na ba sir ang LCD than plasma ngayon ? 

I'm referring to equivalent screen sizes, of course.

[Nemesis91]

Mas mura na ba sir ang LCD ngayon vs plasma? 

I'm referring to equivalent screen sizes, of course.

if equivalent size some are cheaper, halos sale na kasi sila sa abroad eh, dito lang naman sa atin mahal ang lcd. I  dont invest much on bigger size lcd nowadays kasi its a stuck up invesments 1 lcd na 46 will sell 2-3 units in a month while the 50 inch plasma 23-30 units in a month. These are assorted brands ha, kasama na dito yung mga china and branded units. Before i use to get 1 units just for comparision kaso nung huli alam na lahat ng buyers ko so i dont bother getting a lcd bigger than 37.

Mura lcd like the hitchi 32 i sold 28k lang b4, mahal pa yung laptop eh.

[ericag_ph]

A P100K Plasma vs a Projector... no contest at all   

With a 120" screen, completely dark room (dedicated home cinema) coupled with a 720p [or 1080p] HD source (like a PC) or an upscaling player (like an OPPO faroudja)... it will blow away the puny P100K Plasma TV screen out of the water in terms of ...hmm.... EVERYTHING except for the lamp life.   

    The SIZE alone gives the viewing experience a whole new dimension.

A good sample SD-DVD would be I,Robot.  You can even see Will Smith's facial hair down to a strand.
You can't see that on a 32--40 inch screen.

Here's my 120" setup:  http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=55046.0

If not considering the size, would projectors display better picture quality, deep black and excellent details as compared to a plasma at the same price point (e.g. P100T Plasma vs. P100T projector)?  Correct me if I'm wrong, I had the impression that of the three technologies, plasma offers the best picture quality, LCD offers the best all-around HDTV and projector offers the best value in terms of price vs. size. 

[ericag_ph]

So?
Does that mean the review isn't true anymore?  Your logic doesn't seem to follow.

That there is no more Burn-in or IR just because it was written 2006?
The member's Panasonic PV8 isn't a 2006 model right? or is it?

Address the arguments 

not the emotions 

  

Daming galit kasi sa plasma eh, ang ganda kasi ng kulay! hahaha..

2006 pa yung review.

[ericag_ph]

Curious, were either TVs calibrated properly for PQ?

It's quite common for TVs in the shops to be totally uncalibrated, sales people don't even know
what they're selling.  -- but you would know that right?

Therefore the comparison you made would be incomplete. 

Ang tagal ko nag "research" tungkol sa LCD (coz I was deadset to get one).  Wala pala kwenta yung "research" nung nakita ko side by side audition ng Plasma vs LCD.    No doubt in my choice. 

[milken]

Thanks Sir Vic, iiinaslao and ericag_ph for the feedback about PJ.  Didn't know PJ technology is that good already.  I only considered Plasma vs. LCD when choosing my first HDTV.  Of course, this thread is very helpful in my decision.  Thanks guys. 

A 1080p projector and 120"+ screen are definitely my next upgrade.  For now, enjoy ko muna Pana 50pv80 ko. 

[nerveblocker]

Just enjoy what you have for now.  Before the plasma burn-in, there is already the itch to upgrade. 

[nerveblocker]

Nothing beats the PJ for the closest experience of movie theater watching.  Size matters....

 

[ericag_ph]

Sorry, but I fail to grasp the logic of your statement.    
Since when did price have anything to do with the quality of a product?  

Are you making the false assumption that higher price = better quality and that lower price = less quality?

You see, quality has nothing to do with price  

The saying "you get what you pay for" is a pure fallacy.  
Likely invented by those "businessmen" aka con artists who wanted to capitalize on the unwary, naive, consumer into thinking paying more = better quality hence more profits for them.

However if you meant lower price because of more quantity, this is probably the only thing correct
in your statement.  Basic economics tell us that more supply = cheaper prices.
But again, has nothing to do with quality.  

anyway mura naman ng lcd now eh, parang laptop lang ang price.
quantity over quality

[Munskie]

Curious, were either TVs calibrated properly for PQ?

It's quite common for TVs in the shops to be totally uncalibrated, sales people don't even know
what they're selling.  -- but you would know that right?

Therefore the comparison you made would be incomplete. 

Even if they are both uncalibrated (and I know they are), the comparison I made was all the information I need.     Mukhang calibrated na yung PLasma right out of the box eh.....    In other words....the PQ difference (black level/color accuracy) was enough for me to change my mind.   
Essentially...the audition made me........

1.  Throw away a weeks worth of research I made in choosing a LCD TV model 
2.  Choose a PLasma unit that I havent researched.

I was really convinced by what I saw, and is being supported by numerous reviews/posts here    No regrets, even if the comparison may be "incomplete".   

[GioSpike]

Just enjoy what you have for now.  Before the plasma burn-in, there is already the itch to upgrade. 

Nothing beats the PJ for the closest experience of movie theater watching.  Size matters....

Last July 2008, I've switched from Toshiba 37C3500 LCD to Panasonic 42PV8 Plasma.  After 2 weeks of using the 42PV8, I upgraded to Panasonic AX200U LCD projector.  Tempting kasi price. Mas mura pa sa 37" LCD and can project 100"-180"!

These are my thoughts,
LCD - Excellent for browsing. Crisp text. Brighter images. You can see more details but lesser black. Excellent on bright environment.
Plasma - Excellent for movies. More natural colors.  I did not experience any eye strain. Excellent on environment with less light. Medyo naparanoid ako sa burn-in and image retention, which they say was no longer an issue.
My considerations for getting the LCD Projector:
Portability - pag bakasyon or may events sa province namin, I could bring this with me. Unlike large screen flat panels.
Ambient Light - controlled naman light sa room ko, kaya hindi naging problem 'to.
Price - cheaper than a 37" LCD / 42" Plasma.
Great reviews on AX200U - great feedback from PinoyDVD members and reviews from other sites.
Black level - like silverscreen sa cinema, I already expected that black is not as black as Plasma flat panel displays.
and of course, SIZE really brings the WOW factor sa home theater viewing experience!

[Nemesis91]

So?
Does that mean the review isn't true anymore?  Your logic doesn't seem to follow.

That there is no more Burn-in or IR just because it was written 2006?
The member's Panasonic PV8 isn't a 2006 model right? or is it?

Address the arguments 

not the emotions 

  

Saan kaba nakita na meron burn in na panasonic plasma? Do you own one? Did you base your review on others review too? article or base on actual research?

Burn in means di na natatangal yung image. Meron ba sa mga new models na kita mo? You mean your reffering to all plasma, like pioneer, panasonic, samsung etc?

[ninjababez®]

i can only see IR when i change channels .. the part wherein its stays black for a few milliseconds ..
aside from that no problems or whatsoever .. and oh i btw i was not able to follow the 100 hours burin period, around 20+ hours lang .. why? kakatamad eh .. 
no network/channel logo or whatsoever .. 

btw arent we renaming this thread to Plasma vs LCD vs PJ

[Munskie]

btw arent we renaming this thread to Plasma vs LCD vs PJ

I think we stay with Plasma vs LCD.   Front Projectors are of different breed kumbaga, and cant be truly compared with Flat Panels.

I own a front PJ and a Plasma.  For sheer Wow factor, nothing beats out a front PJ.   

Here are some screenshots from my projectors:  Panny ae900, Pannyax200 and Panny ae2000.

SCREENSHOTS